Railroad Line Forums - Logging Locos, Logging Track Plan, Logging Mill, M
Railroad Line Forums
Username:
Password:
Save Password


Register
Forgot Password?
  Home   Forums   Events Calendar   Sponsors   Support the RRLine   Guestbook   FAQ     Register
Active Topics | Active Polls | Resources | Members | Online Users | Live Chat | Avatar Legend | Search | Statistics
Photo Album | File Lister | File Library
[ Active Members: 1 | Anonymous Members: 0 | Guests: 91 ]  [ Total: 92 ]  [ Newest Member: longknifeldr ]
 All Forums
 Model Railroad Forums
 Logging, Mining, & Narrow minded
 Logging Locos, Logging Track Plan, Logging Mill, M
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Author Previous Topic: Arkansas Lime Co. 3 gauge railroad Topic Next Topic: new narrow gauger from Texas  

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/21/2019 :  1:19:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Logging Locos, Logging Track Plan, Logging Mill, Mainline Pick-up

I need HELP!

Quite awhile back I set aside some spaces on my new double-deck layout plan to have some logging scenes.

I labeled them Logging Tracks & Logging Interchange


Even though both of these 'scenes' are interconnected, they both require individual design attention:

a) to the logging trains that gather up the downed trees and deliver them to the lumber mill,
b) the mill itself,
c) and finally placement of finished product on mainline cars for retail distribution.






On this upper level I am proposing to put some logging tracks and trains running out the peninsula to its tip. There might be a very tight loop at the free end of the peninsula for the short logging locos to run. Or it might be just a back and forth operation for them. They will bring logs back to the saw mill scene at the trunk end of the peninsula (logging interchange). I have the whole Walthers saw mill kit(s) and would like to make this scene some sort of transfer of logs to cut/finished product that would be loaded onto mainline log cars and center-beam loaded cars, and a number of other wood carrying cars



At that point I let myself get stalled out thinking of details about this logging scene, and I went onto more pressing matters to getting some lower plywood decks cut out, and tracks laid in my helix, etc, etc. Now I am at a point where I want to finish up cutting out the deck plates for the upper level,...BUT I need to define what I intend to do about this whole logging area. I need some ideas, hopefully from folks interested in logging subjects.
Brian

Country: | Posts: 144

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/21/2019 :  1:26:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Spine/Backbone

For the last couple of days I've been trying to come up with some basic ideas of placement of the mill components, a track plan, etc. I've looked thru lots of images via google, and some of my old magazine clippings. Nothing has 'hit me on the head' as the way to proceed.



I had previously started a subject thread asking about the minimum radius curves that these locos might be capable of?
Logging Locos & Minimum Radius Curves
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/34504



It quickly became obvious that I was NOT going to be able to put a turning loop at the tip of this upper peninsula, as the peninsula itself was only going to be a maximum 24” wide,...more likely 18” wide?



And perhaps I was NOT going to be able to put a turning loop down where the logging trains brought the trees to the mill (pond of the mill preferable)?


A few days ago I was visiting my metal scrap yard and noticed a new piece of that 'sign post' metal beam I've utilized on other portions of my 'metal benchwork'. My thoughts turned back to this logging train trackage I had been contemplating down an elevated strip over my central peninsula.

Could this beam be the backbone rib of that logging trackage? In other words it would exist strictly as a stiff backbone of approx 8 foot of length. Various pieces of 1-2" thick foam attached to this backbone would provide for the scenery and roadbed all along this length. The backbone might well be attached to the ceiling beams of the shed via 2 long, all-thread rods, so no support structure required from the bottom. And these rods can be placed such that the ceiling fan is still usable, ….but the 3 lights that are part of the fixture would likely be removed.

Last night I grabbed a long piece of alum I had sitting around, and 'strung' it up to represent that backbone I mentioned above,....(I even gave it a little grade to climb from the trunk of this peninsula to the outer tip under the fan. BTW forget that rope holding this up,...just temporary for effect. That will likely be a piece of all-thread hanging from the ceiling studs, and camouflaged as a tall mountaintop radio antenna or whatever.)....








BTW did you notice that paper plate taped to the beam at its outer tip? I will talk about that coming up.


Brian

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/21/2019 :  1:30:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


So now my sketchy plan is starting to look like this,..


The 'trunk' of the peninsula is a 2 foot deep piece of plywood across the back side of the layout. I've temporarily relocated my coal mine from the right hand corner over to the left hand corner. So I have a couple of mainline tracks that loop into the helix area, and also have a shortcut track provision to loop around the perimeter of the upper deck. Other than that things are open to suggestions as to how a lumber mill, its pond, etc , and the delivery logging trains can unload and turn around for another trip back up the peninsula??

The logging peninsula itself I am imagining will be about 18" wide, and would have at least 1 track on either side of some sort of view splitter/divider down its center (at least 2 tracks). These tracks could make various twist/curves, cross bridges, etc, etc with various scenic backdrops and trees to reach either end....about 7-8 feet in length and 9" deep.

At the tip of the peninsula there would be a 'gallows style' turntable to turn the logging locos around, and perhaps hold 1or 2 locos at idle. That paper plate I mentioned above represents that gallows turntable. I've measured a few of my longer loggers, and it appears as though a small of turntable only 8" in diameter will handle any of them, including the Heisler with its aux tender.











Brian

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 07/21/2019 :  7:22:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Brian,

Not many model railroaders do a complete layout centered on logging because of limited variety in operations. However it looks like you will represent enough aspects of the industry to avoid that problem.

There isn’t much in the model rail press on logging these days, is there? Seems like there were more frequent articles in the Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette back in the first couple decades of its publication. For much of my information I rely on the series of soft cover books on Pennsylvania logging. Depending on the region, related products include tanned leather, clothes pins, and kindling.

Mike



Country: USA | Posts: 5097 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/23/2019 :  6:20:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I am not an expert on logging railroads, but I think that most of them didn't use turntables and the logging locos just ran back and forth. One of the reasons is that the logging rails were often relocated to different parts of forests, and rebuilding a turntable at each new location would be costly and time consuming, as well as eating up a wider spot of land. I'm sure there are probably some logging railroads that did use turntables, but I think for the most part the did not.

Al Carter




Hi Al,
I think you may be correct there, …probably not many logging operations used them.

But I've looked at a number of the A-frame/ Gallows types where the upper structure is built with heavy timbers and steel rod such that the 'bridge structure' can be a relatively flat plane not requiring big support from the perimeter surrounding track, nor a pit of any sort. With the heavy timbers and likely heavy cables and rods they utilized in other ways in logging, I would think this might have been be a real way to construct a relatively cheap, remote turntable that could be moved to another logging location as needed. And naturally hand powered








I'm not 'timber knowledgeable' either, so I wonder how the prototype guys turned their logging locos for the 'return trip'. I suspect it was some sort of 'wye'. But these things eat up 'real estate' also, even if you are just turning the loco and not all the log cars (actually don't see a need to turn all the log cars, they can run either way?)

A wye arrangement at the tip of my peninsula may not be that doable either as its only 18” wide at its best. So that's 'why' I thought of a gallows turntable out at that end.

Besides they look neat, ...and I think I have one that needs TLC, but I can't remember right now.

Brian


Brian

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/25/2019 :  12:11:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mock-up Ideas

I laid down some of that brown paper I used to make some of the full-scale plans earlier. Rather then onto my carport table, I put it on the lower level deck in that area since the overall shape is somewhat similar. This 'blank piece of paper' would allow me to move things around to get some ideas of ; 1)what I might fit in there, and 2) where and what orientation the structures and track might assume?? So here are my initial ideas.

Space cleared out ready for overlapping paper


I keep the mainline(s) loop and access into the helix very much as I had originally sketched them,...and the 'alternative' curved track that would allow the trains to simply circle the room rather than enter the helix.





Peninsula tracks. This has been a challenge (and still is) to decide on. I have abandoned the idea of a turntable at the outer tip. And I have basically abandoned the idea of hidden tracks masking some of the moving of unloaded vs loaded log trains up-down the peninsula. Instead I will have 2 logging trains making the trips between the tip and base of the peninsula. One will be 'empties', and one will be loaded with logs. They will basically just go back and forth between the pond at the sawmill and the woods at the tip of the peninsula.

Since there are 2 trains, I will have 2 tracks for them to operate on, and likely those 2 tracks will be located on either side of a 'view-block' down the center such that a fair amount of woodsy scenery can be built on either side,...considering the shortness, smallness of my overall area. I would hope to have a wavy, curvy track on both sides,...


Questionable crossover? As you can see I place a double slip switch in there about half way up the peninsula. My thought was that this would allow either of the 2 trains to be able to switch sides at times. I'm imagining that this double slip switch would be camouflaged by a whole bunch of trees, or something to hide its existence?? Its basically located such that either one of the 2 logging trains pulling as many as 6 full length log cars could sit on either outer leg.



These 2 logging trains can back down to the pond unloading area (pond not shown yet, but a few logs in there) onto 2 closely spaced, parallel tracks (orientation and straightness not determined yet).



BTW the ramp that pulls the logs from the pond will be centered on that end of the Walthers sawmill rather then off to one side (will require some kit-bashing of that sawmill).




That large piece white/multi colored paper represents the sawmill footprint. You can see the log pick-up ramp coming out the center of structure there.

That little black blob exiting the covered ramp side of the sawmill is actually that little steam switcher engine that will be transporting the cut lumber over to a milling/finishing/storage-stacking area that will likely be painted as a backdrop on the rear wall (since there is no way I have room for such a structure).


The travel crane shown there in the background was just thrown in for effect. Perhaps that logging company was successful enough to need a 'modified travel crane to load the centerbeam cars lined up down that/those siding tracks in front of the milling and storage area painted on the backdrop??



WOW, I think I found a spot for my gallows turntable. This logging company has enough logging locos to justify a turntable and small repair area. This also makes it possible to change out on occasion the two logging locos working the woods.

There is a slight variation in the track access to the turntable such as to provide for a continuous route thru the turntable for full length logging trains...second photo.




The 2 tracks in the foreground that are entering that corner are the 2 mainlines coming from the container port. That one against the wall has a siding that might lead off to a gold mine or something in that corner. I have a nice tower mining structure in mind. Otherwise that mainline provides for entering the helix from either this side of the layout, or the other side . If the train enters that helix loop from this right side of the layout, then when it comes back around it can choose to go back down along the wall of the shed (back side of the stacked containers and SF station), OR it can choose to go down the track in front of the stacked containers. That mainline in front of the containers will also have a siding to hold a SF passenger train, and to provide access to the SF diesel engine maintenance building down in corner over the waterfront scene on the lower level.



Brian

Edited by - railandsail on 07/25/2019 12:17:14 AM

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

Philip
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 07/25/2019 :  10:55:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit Philip's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Your off to a great start!

more info
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=176.0

Philip



Country: USA | Posts: 2645 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/25/2019 :  5:46:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very interesting site/discussion there Phillip. Within that discussion I found this link to a free downloadable book,..

It goes WAY BEYOND the info I need, but it is a very significant resource.

....a very comprehensive book about Timber,...and its a free download

Lumber: Its Manufacture and Distribution - Ralph Clement Bryant - Google Books
https://books.google.com/books?id=Z1QDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA171&lpg=PA172&ots=6u7XlPKHD0&dq=Sawmilling Bryant&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Sawmilling Bryant

quote:
I was able to download the entire book 590-something pages as a PDF, no problem.
Marc
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=176.45


Brian

Edited by - railandsail on 07/25/2019 5:48:21 PM

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/25/2019 :  6:49:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Philip

Your off to a great start!

more info
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=176.0

Philip


I'm tying to read thru that subject thread you linked to, but there are MANY photos not viewable. I thought perhaps I needed to 'register', but that appears to be disabled??


Brian

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

Philip
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 07/25/2019 :  8:40:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Philip's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The author unfortunately became ill & server expired I suppose. Sorry.

Philip



Country: USA | Posts: 2645 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/26/2019 :  09:48:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually it turns out that one of the creaters/administrators of that forum made a reply to me just yesterday to inform me that those images were hosted by a third party, and that third party must have dissolved or whatever....

Brian

Edited by - railandsail on 07/26/2019 09:51:22 AM

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/26/2019 :  10:02:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No Crossover

quote:
Suggestion offered, My 2 cents, I would eliminate the crossover in the middle of the upper peninsula. Just leave the two tracks twist their way to the end and separate them by some sort of view block.

Michael Miller


Going to have to give that more serious thought. I think you might be correct Michael,...a waste of my small, thus valuable real estate.

Subsequent decision, I decided to eliminate that crossover.





Brian

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/26/2019 :  10:18:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Changes Being Considered

I really like bridges, and I thought how appropriate it might be to have a Howe wooden truss bridge up in the logging area. And in fact I have one of those Campbell kits #305 that a gentleman must have started on and never finished. Its all stained and ready for assembly.


Here is where I thought I might place it,...over the stream that might be feeding logs to the pond from another logging section up-stream of my layout. I've temporarily placed a steel curved cord bridge in there for now.



But I ran into a problem. That section of track is a portion of my mainline track that loops thru the helix, and loops around the upper deck. As such it will be carrying double stacks, etc that are too tall for that Howe truss Bridge. So I guess I'm going to have to chose another type bridge for that scene if I decide to include it.

I am growing fond of that idea that some of the log supply would be floated down to the mill from an upstream location painted onto the backdrop.



I also removed that travel crane from the logging operation and placed it back over at the 'far end' of the container yard. As such I would consider this crane as older generation of equipment that is still being used by the container facility, but likely to be retired soon.

BTW, I have 2 of these travel cranes that need serious repair, but I believe I have all the parts. I bought them used long ago.




Brian

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 08/01/2019 :  1:04:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Foam 'Deck' Under Logging Area

Most all of the 'deck structures' of my double deck layout are made of 3/4 plywood. Considering the relatively light weight of the structures and tracks that will compose my logging area, AND the fact that this basically 2 foot wide rectangular area will be supported by 2 steel beams down either side, ...yellow outlined area


I first considered cutting this deck piece from a 1/2 inch thick piece of plywood, then adding the various ground/track elevations by gluing on multiply pieces of foam.

A second thought occurred to me, why not make that rectangular piece of deck out of 2" thick foam, then carve out the reliefs I need for the structures and track? I had a few scrapes of 2" foam I placed up on the 2 support beams to investigate the ideas. (NOTE: remember that the track plan down below in these photos is actually the track being planned for that upper deck)
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/index.php?attachments/dscf4371-jpg.38153/




I chose 2" thick form for 2 reasons,...I believe its the minimum for a good solid base, ...and it fit pretty well under my two entry/exit track tunnels to the outdoor helix.





(disregard that long piece foam sitting 'on top' of the ¾ plywood deck in that photo, just didn't have shorter piece of foam at the time)

If I were to chose the 2” thick foam, I might have some problems here in Florida. Our big box stores don't stock this thicker variety, so I might well have to glue two pieces of 1” thick foam together. There have been a number of folks who have experienced some problems with selecting a proper glue for this joining.


Brian

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 08/01/2019 :  4:04:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I spent the last few days thinking about this 'deck plan' for my logging scene. I went back and forth with the idea of constructing the deck of foam or plywood, what thicknesses of either, what strength I needed from either material if I cut a hole in it for my logging pond, etc, etc. I was having a little trouble 'visualizing' the combinations of varying elevations of the helix accessing tracks, the pond and sawmill, that steel beam across the room, the possible coal mine over the dbl crossover, etc

I finally decided to cut the 'basic deck piece' out of the 1/2” plywood sheet I already had,..and it was already primed. It had a little bit of warp-age from having set around for long periods of time before I inherited it and primed it. But that would not really present many problems as it was going to be bolted down to two long metal beams, spaced only 2 feet apart, and stretching across the room. Plus what would it matter if it did a little warping as that are of the logging scene would have some uneven terrain.

So I hand sketched out some semi-circular cut outs that would form the ends of the 2 aisles, and moved the piece out to my carport work table.




Took it back inside and put it up on those metal beams that would support it




Now I need to fill in the two rectangular pieces to either side of the 4x8 sheet. AMAZINGLY I am able to salvage those two pieces out of the semi-circular pieces I had cut out for the aisle reliefs. It couldn't have worked out better if I had carefully measured for such an outcome,...which I had not.








Now I have laid my temp paper pattern for my trackplan down onto the deck piece, and will proceed with some rough mocking up on track elevations/turnout fittings, etc.







The elevations and ground terrain will be built of foam.

The sawmill will likely be raised up some, so I may not have to 'dig a pit' (cut out some plywood) for the pond, but rather just build the logging pond on the plywood surface itself??


Brian

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page

railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 08/05/2019 :  12:52:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Possible Bridge Substitution

I need to plan on providing enough space for a Central Valley Bridge to be placed into that same spot I am initially going to place that Roco Curved Cord bridge. After all it is a leg on my mainline that is crossing that logging pond, and the CV bridge is a mainline style bridge,....and I have several of these very nice kits.

In here,...


Brian

Country: | Posts: 144 Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic: Arkansas Lime Co. 3 gauge railroad Topic Next Topic: new narrow gauger from Texas  
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Jump To:
Railroad Line Forums © 2000-19 Railroad Line Co. Go To Top Of Page
Steam was generated in 0.42 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000