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hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/05/2016 :  3:40:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello all and long time no posting. I again want to thank all who took the time to provide some feedback on the skylights. It is appreciated.

Mill model updates:
1) I determined that I 'blew-it' with the skylights. I had planned on going back and cutting out a small hole on the inside of each skylight and then scoring just outside of the skylight frame and press the window frame assembly into place to achieve the frame angle. This would also resolve the 'floor' issue with the skylights, as noted earlier.

As it turns out, I had placed some bracing for the roof under a couple of skylights. So, not only would I have the issue of the roofing damage, but also my idea to cut holes in the roof would not work.

Upon doing some other research on the smoke stacks, I noted that several mills, such as the Fifty Gold Mines and Polar Star which had skylights, did not have the angled frames to the roof, but were installed flat on the roof. This style of skylight installation was even found on other structures such as the famous Geo. Stroehle & Son Black Hawk Boiler Works building.

Due to the above correction issues, and the discovery that the 'flat' style of skylight install was actually more common than the angled windows, I've decided to just move forward with the build. But, hindsight is everything. In a future install, like on the Penn Mill (if I ever get a chance to construct it) I'll use the above described process to install the angled skylights. The use of a 2x8 as a guide against the high side of the window and than a smaller 2x4 on the low end would allow one to obtain a constant angle with all the windows in a very simple install.

2) After reviewing multiple sources, it looks like there were no guy lines to the stacks. I've strongly considered the addition of the guy lines to add some eye candy. I'm not going to add the guy lines currently, but I may do so as one of the final steps in the build to help move the viewers eye away from the skylights.

3) OK... now everyone can put on the dunce hat with me. Remember in January I pointed out the issue with the waterwheel house assembly? Don't know how I did it, but I somehow assembled the waterwheel house backwards. The stupid thing is so well glued together that I'm unable to break it apart to reconfigure/assemble correctly. I'm also considering the windows on the assembly as I've never felt that they looked good. So, it looks like the bane of this build, along with Murphy have made another stand. Since it looks like a total re-do, I'll probably also return to the black asphalt roofing paper for the siding. I have lots of strips left over from the roofing job, so the waterwheel house addition would blend with the roof better than the existing structure with the grey coloring. I just can't bring myself to apply my earlier thoughts on using the incorrect assembly. That's just sloppy modeling.

4) I've been trying to decide how to best make the flume. The flume is a 'covered' flume. It's the exterior bracing which is going to become a bit tedious. After a couple of practice pieces, I've decided on a construction process. I'll be using a styrene core to form the flume. Strip wood will be applied to the core to provide the appropriate look. I'm going to stretch the exterior bracing a bit also, but I'll be keeping the overall appearance of a flume being supported externally. As I construct the flume, I'll do a step-by-step for those interested. It's going to be a lot of doing the same thing over and over... just like the waterwheel house.

Next up will be a quick overview of the waterwheel house re-do. We'll then move on to starting the diorama base construction. This will include Clear Creek behind the mill, with the flume crossing over the creek. Every picture I have located shows excess water dumping out of the flume into Clear Creek, so a tiny waterfall will also have to be included.

Till the next posting, enjoy all. As always, comments and thoughts are invited.



-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 07/05/2016 4:26:06 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6995 Go to Top of Page

TRAINS1941
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 07/05/2016 :  8:28:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looking forward to the Flume Kris.

Just how big will the diorama base be? Even in HO that seems like a large building.


Jerry

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." A. Lincoln

Country: USA | Posts: 9264 Go to Top of Page

quartergauger48
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/05/2016 :  11:12:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You have spent much time on this model.' And looks you'll be investing even more time'. But I think it is worth while, and the perfection you put in for the re-dos will be worth the effort'..
I would darken those skylights up a bit and they will blend better overall. Good luck Kris finishing it up'...



Ted in South Western, Connecticut

Country: USA | Posts: 4375 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 07/05/2016 :  11:33:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Kris,

Ted has an interesting suggestion with regard to darkening the skylights a bit. Is there a particular reason they are white (or close to white)?

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Country: USA | Posts: 2353 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/06/2016 :  11:06:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks all for taking the time to visit.

Jerry: I'm currently not sure exactly how large the diorama 'base' footprint will be. The structure is basically 11x15 inches. I also need to include a mountain side with a creek at the base, some track in front and down one side of the structure, an area in front of the ore chutes to drive/unload and turn around ore wagons/vehicles and a bit of additional scenery like telephone poles, weeds, a small bridge and creek retaining walls. I'll also probably have a low short trestle on the mill side to support the track. This will require a bit of space for a loading ramp/platform. I need to come up with approx. 3 inches height difference from the creek bed to the track going parallel to the opposite side of the structure, about 15 inches total distance front to rear of the structure diorama prior to the creek. The hill side on the far side of the creek will need to probably be about 10 to 14 inches in height, and about 3 or 4 inches wide, possibly a bit wider to accommodate a small land shelf at the base of the hill next to the creek. So the bottom plate of the diorama will probably come in around 18x24 inches.

Ted and Mike: The skylight frames are actually a off white with some strong rust weathering currently. I'll be adding additional weathering, esp. the darker colors like soot when I do the additional roof weathering. There are at least two, if not three, more weathering passes to be made on the roof. I need to wait to do this additional weathering until all of the roof components are in place so that I can account for water runoff under the flume and around the waterwheel house to blend everything together. The water/rust/weathering streaking which is currently on the roof is the strong 'undercoat' to provide the hard edges. My rusting of the skylight frames is also currently way too strong in the red hues, but will be toned down with the gray and tan soot/ash weathering to blend the skylight frames more into the roof and eliminate the dramatic contrast which currently exists. The windows should also appear a bit more dirty when the blending weathering is added.

As for the actual 'white' color of the skylight frames, I think that most were painted a light cream or light grey. I suspect that the actual paint was a whitewash or white paint. Most mill structures were not highly maintained, and construction cost were kept at a minimum. Whitewash or white paint was cheap and reflected light well, so I believe this is why most of the frames reviewed in the old photos show light colored skylight frames. White paint was also used inside stamp mills to help provide as much reflected light as possible off of the interior walls, so white paint would likely have been available on site.

As always, thoughts and comments are more than welcome. I appreciate the assist as your comments make me consider issues too.


-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 07/06/2016 11:14:27 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 6995 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/07/2016 :  12:37:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mental picture being considered for the diorama. For those interested, a few pictures (which one can zoom in for better views) and site plan of the mill can be viewed here:
http://gilpintram.com/newyorkmill.html

Base plate footprint is 26x36 inches. Track will be HOn3. I'll have just the ties where the 2ft gauge Gilpin Tram served the mill, but have not marked on the base plate. Idea is to make it look like the Gilpin has pulled the rail. (Reference site plan in above picture link.)

Flume will cross over Clear Creek off of rock wall. Flume will be on trestle style support along rock face. Small storage tank under flume with a small pipe crossing creek under flume leading into mill wall.

Retaining wall along creek at corner of mill with ore bins.

Possible small (like 2 ft.) waterfall across creek just after bend?? Footbridge across creek behind mill to flat shelf at base of rock wall?? Bank of power pole transformers on lower side of mill to provide added visual interest?? Power poles and lines along road are planned.









-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 07/07/2016 12:49:37 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6995 Go to Top of Page

TRAINS1941
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 07/07/2016 :  3:14:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kris I like the way you laid that out on the foam.

Gives me some good ideas for the mine.

Jus wondering what was the distance between the Maude Munroe Mine and the New York Mill??


Jerry

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." A. Lincoln

Country: USA | Posts: 9264 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/07/2016 :  4:01:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jerry,
The Stanley & Maude Munro Mines were right outside of the yard in Idaho Springs. I'm guessing around 25+ miles between the Maude Munro Mine and the NY Mill located in Black Hawk. I suspect that the Maude Munro would have used a mill in Idaho Springs, like the Dewey. The Donna Juanita mine was adjacent to the Maude Munro.

For pictures and a better idea of the terrain around the Maude Munro, see http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Stanley-Mills-Part-Two-Salisbury-Mill-and-Donna-Juanita-Mine-td3483.html

Note in the last picture of the above link that the mine has the orange-yellow coloring which a lot of folks question.

Hope this helps.


-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 07/07/2016 4:24:29 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6995 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/11/2016 :  1:53:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK... I go really slow at this point in the build as once you set the diorama base you have kinda 'made your bed' so to speak. Thus, I tend to play around with foam blocks and to try to get a feel for the 3-D over several days.

I do not tend to do actual diorama mock-up's as I keep shifting things around a bit mentally, and just use the **gross** forms to get a sense of height/3-d perspective and a feeling for possibilities. A mock-up, for myself, tends to place limits on the free-form imagination-engineering thinking due to the 'set' formats of the mock-up props. I just move blocks of foam around until I come up with a few ideas to add interest, at least three photo angles and a general feeling that the overall format would be possible.

Note that one really needs to imagine foam block extensions as I just place the foam to the immediate areas to obtain a 3-D perspective. So when looking at the pictures understand that this is just the really **gross** 3-D perspectives and is by no means 'locked-in'.







-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Country: USA | Posts: 6995 Go to Top of Page

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/11/2016 :  2:36:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's great to see how your creative processes work! I've used scans of building plans, taped to foamcore, and then leaning against blocks of wood, to help rough-out building sizes and locations.

dave



Country: USA | Posts: 6252 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/12/2016 :  12:11:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
'Old Man' Nature at work... the start of a mountain hillside.

A side note on construction here. It's really important to get the first layer of foam down tightly against the the base plate. Thus, this will sit under weight for awhile. This is the reason for just a single layer of 3/4 inch foam insulation board. The idea is to limit any leakage from the casting resin which will be used for the water in the creek. I will be adding caulk to the seam lines prior to the first pour to further eliminate any leaks.





-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 07/12/2016 12:33:09 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6995 Go to Top of Page

TRAINS1941
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 07/12/2016 :  12:29:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm watching you Kris. looks like your in the planning stages for sure.

Jerry

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." A. Lincoln

Country: USA | Posts: 9264 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 07/12/2016 :  12:44:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The ever-useful Gazette brought into play.

This is a fun part of the hobby: planning, imagining, moving things around, trying ideas, modifying, constructing, and admiring the results.

Oh, and thanks for the explanation on the skylights (more weathering in the offing). As your building and scene progress the skylights are receding into the overall excellent model.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Country: USA | Posts: 2353 Go to Top of Page

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/12/2016 :  1:40:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hohn

The ever-useful Gazette brought into play.
...
Mike

Yeah, something you can't do with the NG&SL DVD :-)

dave



Country: USA | Posts: 6252 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/12/2016 :  2:16:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Gazettes also keep the reading materials close at hand while waiting for the glue to set-up....

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 07/12/2016 2:19:14 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6995 Go to Top of Page
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