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Author Previous Topic: Promised Update... Topic Next Topic: Small Layout Design Help/Challenge - c.1905 Pennsy
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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 05/10/2017 :  01:42:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kris, Mike, Oh yes, I'm having fun. The Steam Engine journey will be the longest and the most complicated. My Test prints shipped today from Shapeways. These pieces will not look much like a steam engine or even a component of one. They will however tell me what the materials will do and how the drawing will be reproduced. I'll write more when the pieces get here and I've evaluated them.

It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4726 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 05/10/2017 :  9:55:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First the shed; I continue to paint and work on the castings.



And on 3D drawing.

As I stated last time for Shapeways' minimum thickness for brass is 1mm and 1mm seems really small but its 3.425" in HO scale. So what is the reality that is used in our models? I measured several examples of high quality models in my collection. None of frames were less that 1mm thick. The finest were 1.5mm. Here are some examples of what I found. First an investment casting as offered by Precision Scale;



This highly detailed part is 2mm thick, yes 6.8" in HO. the prototype was 3.5".

This highly detail part was made by MDC. It is a frame for their outside frame Consolidation NG models. It has a lot of fine detail cast in. take a look;




Close ups;


[




Looks good doesn't it? the only thing on this frame that is less than 1mm (just a bit) are the little hangers running from the end of the springs to the frame.

In the 2nd image on the left they have represented this firewall side the bolt heads on these little narrow gauge engines is about one inch. Here's a view with a scale ruler added;




Yes, they're a bit large. Now the purpose of this is not to run down anybodies products but to see what works in HO and what I can get away with and still have a first class model.



It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4726 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 05/11/2017 :  10:17:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow! no comments?

Well, I'm excited because i Got mt test prints back today.
Here are the drawing of the test prints;

[

These two little boxes had the future of this whole project resting on their shoulders. The purpose was to see if I would get what I drew. The plastic prints came out perfect to size. The raw brass was a little Large. Notice on the model on the left the rows of rivets on the surface just above the three raised rectangles.
I had the model on the left printed in Black Strong and flexible. The model on the right was printed in White Acrylic and Raw Brass. This is what I got, front side;



and back side;



Notice I didn't get any of the rivet detail with the Strong and Flexible or the larger rivets on the White Acrylic. BUT I did get them on the brass. Those rivets are 2"wide by 1" high dowels but they look good in the print. the channels with the round tops are simulated axle holes. The plastic ones were just right but the brass was a little large. I wrapped copy paper around the axle and it was a perfect fit. So I think I need another test to make sure this process is going to work. By the way IMHO the Strong and Flexable is strong enough to serve as frame material. It just doesn't have any wieght.


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4726 Go to Top of Page

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/12/2017 :  08:21:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm -really enjoying- the work on 3D printing. This is the kind of thing you'd expect the technology would eventually support, so it's great to see how well it's working today. Can you include some price information?

dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

Country: USA | Posts: 7169 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 05/13/2017 :  11:37:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave, the black strong and flexible Which is about a inch square was 6.55, the white acrylic was 3.10 and the brass was 13.26.

It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4726 Go to Top of Page

George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 05/14/2017 :  08:36:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob, what you're doing is very interesting. I know nothing about 3D printing, so I'm just taking it all in.

George



Country: USA | Posts: 14618 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 05/14/2017 :  12:01:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks George,
your comments and visit is very encouraging to me. It nice to know others are watching.

Here my progress to date;



Here's a close up of the detail I was able to add to the ash pan;




I also worked on the motor/gear box placement. Using what was available from NWSL. I tried to used a 12x14x27 motor as they are readily available online for almost nothing. There was not enough room in the boiler and yes that is where it's going. There is though, room for a 10x12x0up to 28mm motor for the end of the motor to remain in the cab. I can only find these motors available from NWSL but I'm still looking. Anyway here's the study for the motor/gearbox;



The gray circle at the end of the motor is guild to show the top of the boiler and it's planned 1mm thickness.

While I was drawing the ash pan I meet a wall on the learning curve which frustrated me greatly but fortunately I had therapy waiting for me in the garage, the boxcar kits. I'll post an up date on them after I start a load of laundry.

Hope you enjoyed.



It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4726 Go to Top of Page

jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/14/2017 :  1:33:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm following along; this is all buildable with old-school methods, right down to a set of files, a drill and a hacksaw. But the ability to put detail on the drawing and have it look good on the print looks like an enormous timesaver.


Country: USA | Posts: 5663 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 05/14/2017 :  2:16:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
James,
Thank you, for following and your comment. I appreciate them. These drawing do save a lot of time. Just the ability to test out gearbox and motor combinations before hand is huge! I tried several old-school methods, bought a milling machine, and tried to build frames and failed. I might fail yet. But, the test prints are very promising and give me much optimism. I've upgraded brass and plastic models and I feel that once the frame and mechanism are done the rest is easy to do and you can get fine results with old-school methods and using investment casting. That being said, viewing what other have done and the results of my test models along with careful observation of existing standards causes me to conclude that you can get better models with 3D printing. Though I am concern with report that are now coming in that some of the earliest plastic materials that give the best detail are now after a few years breaking down. I need to investigate that.

Again Thank you


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4726 Go to Top of Page

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/14/2017 :  3:23:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The brass price is surprisingly affordable! Any concerns about the sturdiness/rigidity of the brass printing?

In other news, I see Micro-Mark has a new machine that's a combination 3D printer, CNC engraver and laser cutter: http://www.micromark.com/ZMorph-2-0-SX-Full-Set

dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

Country: USA | Posts: 7169 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 05/14/2017 :  3:34:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave, Absolutely not. It as strong as an investment casting as it is a casting.

It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4726 Go to Top of Page

Yellow signal
Engine Wiper

Posted - 05/14/2017 :  10:29:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bob,
I think you're doing pretty good here! I've basically gone through the exact same process as you, except for different models.
Brass is strong, but the tolerances aren't great. I have only used brass for cufflinks so far. Frosted Ultra Detail is the material of choice for me. It shows details very well. The price of that will drop by may 22nd by the way. The Strong&Flexible nylon is good enough for larger things where you accept, or can hide, the surface roughness.
Since I haven't built any locos I don't know wether or not FUD is strong enough for the frame in the long run. It certainly is strong enough for my models, but they don't move.

Keep us posted on the build, I have your thread on watch now ;)

Erik


https://www.shapeways.com/shops/Ngineer

Country: Netherlands | Posts: 345 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/15/2017 :  03:25:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sure is interesting to watch as I for one am picking up a lot of new information.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Country: USA | Posts: 7124 Go to Top of Page

Frederic Testard
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 05/16/2017 :  01:46:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob, I'm really impressed by your very nicely designed parts and the high level of details you've put into it.
I find it particularly interesting that you're working on designing a steam engine using 3D printed brass as I have been thinking of the same thing for a while (without designing anything as yet).
Thanks for pointing my attention to your great work.



Country: France | Posts: 17652 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 05/16/2017 :  10:58:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kris, Thank you for the encouragement it is much appreciated.
Erik, I appreciate your comments too, I should of gotten a test print in FUD too. I have bought several Prints of FUD from others shops so I am a little familiar with it. It strong enough to use for trucks and the details you can reproduce with it are fantastic but it has no weight. As you know, locomotives can not be too heavy but are easily too light. The opposite of course, is the case with our freight and passenger cars. To get the quality I want some things are going to have to be FUD. The details we'll see.

Frederic, Thank you. Ed's work got me to look into 3D printing, Your Heisler Boiler drawing opened my eyes to the possibility (not to mention your footing of the water tank columns with their intersecting tubes) and set me up to be lit on fire by the works of Alan Mueller and Gerry Dykstra (of the YONAH and HAUPH project). So Thank you.

All of you please feel free to comment and contribute as I proceed.


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4726 Go to Top of Page
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