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Author Previous Topic: Louís Logging Railroad Car Barn Topic Next Topic: 55n3 Reboot - Proof of Concept
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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 06/08/2012 :  07:15:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by quarryman

Looking good, Jeff.

I don't really understand why the new hardware on the doors would work better than what you had. But easier and cheaper is very easy to understand. The sagging shed hanging over the steep slope makes the coal dump area seem even more hazardous.

Thanks for posting your progress,

Mark



I sort of over simplified why my new method is better. Besides being easier and cheaper to build, I had to change the design because when I switch to the new SJCC trucks (the ones with the longer wheel base) I have to raise the bell crank to clear the inboard set of wheels, and I could not keep the ball joints because they would hit the drive motor. I came up with the method to use the two pins because it makes a very low profile mechanism, which also has very little friction, the ball joints were smooth but actually had a lot of friction. The trouble with having two different drive mechanism, one with more friction than the other, is that one will open nice and slow and the other will slam open and shut, so to get them all the same I decided to convert the existing cars to have the same that the future cars will.



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dallas_m
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 06/08/2012 :  07:27:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dang, man! There's already a ton of jaw-dropping stuff ... and then you casually throw in the Nova restoration. Wow! Yikes! Amazing ... and delightful ... be sure to come back with finished pix on the Nova too.

Cheers,
Dallas

Chambers Gas & Oil -- structure build
Quality craftsmanship with a sense of humor!

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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 07/03/2012 :  08:01:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Nova restoration kicked my butt, so I took a break and my son and I hopped in the truck and went fishing for 7 days. We got back this weekend and with the heat I skipped working on the car and headed to the basement to play around with some trains again.

If you had followed my Manns Creek hopper build on the On30 forum and on this post you know that I have been working on ways to improve my hoppers while cutting down the construction time, my goal is about 3-4 hours per car. I used Autodesk Inventor to design a 3D CAD model of my hopper cars and used that model to design my cutting and assembly jigs for the car sides, which I had Shapeways make and they worked out great, I can build very accurate car side frames in minutes, which allows me time to weather the side boards without feeling rushed. Then I used Inventor and Shapeways again to create the bolsters and frame sections, which also worked out great, but I only ordered one set to test which was a good thing because I changed trucks on my newest cars and it required me to redesign the frames for the longer trucks. So I went back to my CAD model and redesigned the bolsters and frame section for the new trucks.

I was all set to order one set frame sections and bolsters for the new trucks as a test when I had and idea. After I built the last ten hoppers I came to hate putting in the slope sheets, it was a real pain to get good cuts without gaps. I ended up cutting the floors close and used 0.010 styrene strips to fill the gaps but it was still a lot of fussing and cutting. When I was setting up my Shapeways order for the new bolsters and frame I thought that I should use Inventor to design a cutting template for the slope sheets, then I thought why not just make a one piece floor with all the slope sheets pre assembled as one piece, then I thought why not just make the bolsters, outer frame sections one piece. So I took my CAD model, stripped off the outer body pieces and sent it off to Shapeways.

I got my new one piece car interior with the removable center frame section yesterday, wow, way cool. I also had Shapeways make me the bell crank and the toe board brackets. I had the toe board brackets made by Shapeways because each car required 6 brackets which would require me to make 150 brackets. So I had Shapeways make me a sample of 6 brackets from the Frosted White Detail material, which is higher in cost than the basic material but it looks a lot better. The parts look great so I will make a larger parts tree that will do several cars in a future order.

Here is the Shapeway parts with a Hobby Engineering motor mounted to the center frame section. I also redesigned the frame ends to mount Kadee On3 couplers using the Kadee coupler box at the correct NMRA On3 coupler height. The trucks are San Juan Car Company trucks. I really like how it all worked out so far. I will next build a set of car sides, doors, and ends and get it all painted to see how it works out before I go any further. My first test with the frame sections painted great and are hard to tell from the other wood framed cars so I see no reason why this won't work out.



I also got to test some other scenery materials. A while back Brian Bond sent me a sample bag of rocks that he used on his On3 layout, I thought they looked great so he sent me a 5 gallon pail of rocks, which I hauled from his in-laws house to mine on the back of my motorcycle. I was dying to try some of these rocks and also to try using some ďGround GoopĒ. On my HO layout I covered the scenery base with sand, which works well and looks like sand but I found that everything was too smooth because the sand is so dry and it will only form smooth ground shapes. I wanted to create that dug out and bulldozed eroded look of earth. Earth in the woods has all kinds of plant roots and moisture that holds it together and sand just does not get that look easily. My hope was that Ground Goop would allow me to push and shape the earth while it was wet and push rocks and other objects into it so they look planted and not glued on top. I mixed up a two cup batch of Ground Goop and jumped in and tested a patch of ground around one end of the dump trestle. The Ground Goop is nice to work with because you can stick in on slopes that sand would just fall off or wash away when you try to glue it, and just as I hoped I was able to push in some of the rocks that Brain gave me. I added some other junk that I had just laying around into the wet goop. I sprinkled some fine sand on the wet goop and used sand to blend the edges to the ties. One slightly negative feature of the goop is that it is paint and you have to be very careful when you put it around things that are already finished, like rock castings, bridge abutments, and railroad ties. I learned to get the goop close and work it over to the objects with an artist trowel. I can see this goop working out great for planting structures because you do have to worry about the base being level and getting wood structures wet and having them warp. Here is a photo of my test section.


My plaster rocks are a different color than the rocks I got from Brian so I will have to add a wash of some Red Oxide to my rocks to get the colors tones to match better.

with the weather close to 100 degrees this week I will be staying out of the garage and work a little more on the layout. I am going to finish up this batch of Ground Goop and I am going to do a time test build on the hopper car
and with the shapeways parts and build it form start to finish to see how long it takes.



Edited by - Coaltrain on 07/03/2012 08:05:44 AM

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vamodeler
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/06/2012 :  09:42:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit vamodeler's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jeff,

For someone supposedly working on a "real car", you sure are getting a lot of really cool stuff done on the layout. I can't wait to see more progress. Avoid the heat, work on your trains!

Brian


My Website: http://sites.google.com/site/deercreekandlaurelry/

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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 07/30/2012 :  07:42:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
t is a good think I have inside and outside hobbies living in Minnesota, if it is not 40 below zero it is 100 degrees or more. With that being said, work on the Nova is at a snailís pace, most nights it has been over 100 degrees in the garage by the time I get home from work, so I have been taking advantage of an air conditioned basement and work on the RR. I have been slowly picking away at my new hopper cars, one of the 11 new cars was almost finished when I started these new cars, all it needed was the final detail added, which I did. I also took one of the new cars and finished it.

I got a little crazy on the second car I finished and decided to convert it to one of the MC cars that had the steel frame. Ron Lane (one of the authors of the MC book) sent me some photos he had of the end of a steel framed car and it inspired me to give one a try. I still have to add the stirrups but for the most part the car is finished. This is the first car I finished that rides on the new San Juan Car Company trucks, which are bigger than the trucks I was using. The wheels are a large diameter and it causes the car to ride a bit higher than my other cars, but I think that it is more correct and my other cars are too low. If I try to replace the trucks on the original cars with the new SJCC trucks the wheels rub on the end of the car body. The new trucks look big, but I like them, I think they make the car look beefy.

I decided to number the cars with the new SJCC trucks lower than the original cars. The theory is that the cars with the bigger trucks were the original cars and when war time traffic demanded that new cars be constructed they took the trucks off of old flatcars and log cars to use under the new hoppers.

Here are the latest cars on the roster. Number 30 has the old 202 trucks I was using and number 9 has the new 220 trucks.




here is the end of #9, when I built the frame I set the coupler height to match my cars with the 202 trucks, when I came to the conclusion that the car has to sit higher I had to shim down the couplers by 0.040. The steel cars where interesting because the door lever was just a bent steel rod that came through the corner brace.


For those of you interested in the Nova, here is the progress on the motor. It is almost ready to go on the dyno. That strange thing in the distributor hole is an old distributor that is hooked up to an electric drill to turn the oil pump so the motor won't be started dry. I am shooting for somewhere between 400-500 hp, but we will see when the numbers come back.




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centercab
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/30/2012 :  08:03:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I agree, Jeff...the car looks better with the larger trucks. Good job on the steel-framed one. Heck; good job on all of them!

On the engine, what valve covers are you using? I like the way they look.


-------------------------
Chuck

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vamodeler
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/30/2012 :  09:40:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit vamodeler's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jeff,

Those cars look really, really good. Great job on the coloring, etc., etc.

Brian


My Website: http://sites.google.com/site/deercreekandlaurelry/

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Rick
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 07/30/2012 :  09:59:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those cars look fantastic and I like the looks of the larger trucks too.

Nice looking engine.


As you think, so will you be.

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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 07/30/2012 :  11:41:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by centercab



On the engine, what valve covers are you using? I like the way they look.



I can't remember who makes them, I got them on Ebay. I had my doubts but they have worked out good. I like they way they look as well.

I think these are what they were
http://www.rebelperformance.com/servlet/the-1906/SBC-305-350-Chevy/Detail



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quarryman
Fireman



Posted - 07/30/2012 :  12:29:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit quarryman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jeff-

I agree with Brian that you have figured out great weathering and aging techniques for wood and metal. The aging is understated and does not bring a lot of attention to itself, but looks very prototypical. On the subject of your Nova ... will you have to completely fabricate a drive train that can handle 500 horsepower? My grandma had a Nova ... 500 hp would have twisted the axles right out of the wheels.

Mark



Country: USA | Posts: 1183 Go to Top of Page

Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 07/30/2012 :  12:58:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by quarryman

Jeff-

I agree with Brian that you have figured out great weathering and aging techniques for wood and metal. The aging is understated and does not bring a lot of attention to itself, but looks very prototypical. On the subject of your Nova ... will you have to completely fabricate a drive train that can handle 500 horsepower? My grandma had a Nova ... 500 hp would have twisted the axles right out of the wheels.

Mark





no, the Nova I have is a factory Super Sport, so it already has a heavy duty rear end and transmission. From the factory they came with 375hp motors. I am going to have the stock tires on my car, which seem really small and I am sure they will lose traction long before something breaks.

As far as the weathering, it is actually pretty simple. The car bodies are painted a mix of Floquil earth, concrete, and Antique white. I don't have an exact mix ratio, if I had to guess I would say I use more than half a bottle of the earth, about 1/3 the bottle of concrete, and then use the white until I feel the mix is light enough. The goal is to get a color that looks like bare basswood. Once again, the reason I paint the basswood to look like basswood is because some of my cars have resin parts mixed with the basswood parts. I even paint the cars I made all from basswood this base color mix so that all my cars look about th same. Even if all my cars were all basswood I would still paint them because I like to use washes of acrylic paint and I would be afraid the acrylic paint would cause the cars to warp. I use Floquil as the base color so the washes of acrylic paint does not soften and lift the base color.

After the base color has dried I give the car two washes of IA and rubbing alcohol, this will make a very gray looking wood, which is fine to stop at if the car is to like all the creosote is gone. The MC sprayed the cars with creosote according to the book about the MC so my guess is that, depending on the year someone is modeling, there would be some degree of creosote on the cars when they were in service. A few months ago I got the new Trackside in West Virginia book and in the back of the book is a color photo of the end of an MC hopper car shot in the mid 50s and the car was more brown looking than I thought they would be, so I gave my cars a couple washes of black / brown acrylic paint. I use artist tube acrylic paint, black and Burnt Umber thinned, to wash the cars until I get the desired darkness I am after.

For the metal on car #30 I used my same Polly Scale rust base with Bragdon powder stippled into the still wet paint. For car #9 I tried something new, which I like even better, and that is Taymia flat brown with the same Bragdon powder. I like the rust on #9 better because it has a much darker old rust tone. I was looking at a piece of rusted steel I had and when I compaired my #9 to it they looked really close.



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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 07/30/2012 :  12:59:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by quarryman

Jeff-

I agree with Brian that you have figured out great weathering and aging techniques for wood and metal. The aging is understated and does not bring a lot of attention to itself, but looks very prototypical. On the subject of your Nova ... will you have to completely fabricate a drive train that can handle 500 horsepower? My grandma had a Nova ... 500 hp would have twisted the axles right out of the wheels.

Mark





no, the Nova I have is a factory Super Sport, so it already has a heavy duty rear end and transmission. From the factory they came with 375hp motors. I am going to have the stock tires on my car, which seem really small and I am sure they will lose traction long before something breaks.

As far as the weathering, it is actually pretty simple. The car bodies are painted a mix of Floquil earth, concrete, and Antique white. I don't have an exact mix ratio, if I had to guess I would say I use more than half a bottle of the earth, about 1/3 the bottle of concrete, and then use the white until I feel the mix is light enough. The goal is to get a color that looks like bare basswood. Once again, the reason I paint the basswood to look like basswood is because some of my cars have resin parts mixed with the basswood parts. I even paint the cars I made all from basswood this base color mix so that all my cars look about th same. Even if all my cars were all basswood I would still paint them because I like to use washes of acrylic paint and I would be afraid the acrylic paint would cause the cars to warp. I use Floquil as the base color so the washes of acrylic paint does not soften and lift the base color.

After the base color has dried I give the car two washes of IA and rubbing alcohol, this will make a very gray looking wood, which is fine to stop at if the car is to like all the creosote is gone. The MC sprayed the cars with creosote according to the book about the MC so my guess is that, depending on the year someone is modeling, there would be some degree of creosote on the cars when they were in service. A few months ago I got the new Trackside in West Virginia book and in the back of the book is a color photo of the end of an MC hopper car shot in the mid 50s and the car was more brown looking than I thought they would be, so I gave my cars a couple washes of black / brown acrylic paint. I use artist tube acrylic paint, black and Burnt Umber thinned, to wash the cars until I get the desired darkness I am after.

For the metal on car #30 I used my same Polly Scale rust base with Bragdon powder stippled into the still wet paint. For car #9 I tried something new, which I like even better, and that is Taymia flat brown with the same Bragdon powder. I like the rust on #9 better because it has a much darker old rust tone. I was looking at a piece of rusted steel I had and when I compaired my #9 to it they looked really close.



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Coaltrain
Fireman

Posted - 07/30/2012 :  1:20:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
that is weird, it posted my reply twice, I tried to edit it but it only shows it once.


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vamodeler
Engine Wiper



Posted - 07/30/2012 :  2:58:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit vamodeler's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Coaltrain

that is weird, it posted my reply twice, I tried to edit it but it only shows it once.



Its that NOVA engine, it wants more time and attention!


My Website: http://sites.google.com/site/deercreekandlaurelry/

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Ray Dunakin
Fireman



Posted - 08/01/2012 :  11:34:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ray Dunakin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Those hopper look terrific! I really like the steel framed car.



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