Railroad Line Forums - NMRA AP Civil Eng.Certificate "Support" Thread
Railroad Line Forums
Username:
Password:
Save Password


Register
Forgot Password?
  Home   Forums   Events Calendar   Sponsors   Support the RRLine   Guestbook   FAQ     Register
Active Topics | Active Polls | Resources | Members | Online Users | Live Chat | Avatar Legend | Search | Statistics
Photo Album | File Lister | File Library
[ Active Members: 5 | Anonymous Members: 0 | Guests: 107 ]  [ Total: 112 ]  [ Newest Member: Poul Low Moller ]
 All Forums
 Model Railroad Forums
 Model Railroad Construction
 NMRA AP Civil Eng.Certificate "Support" Thread
Next Page
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Author Previous Topic: Carrie Creek Land Co. construction series Topic Next Topic: The Bonaventure & Chambly
Page: of 9

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 02/10/2009 :  12:17:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This thread is one of a series of threads intended to help RR-L Forum members who are also members of the NMRA and are working within the NMRA’s Achievement Program. This is not a thread to debate the pros and cons of either the NMRA or the Achievement Program. For a full explanation of the purpose of these threads, members should refer to this thread on the forum: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24676

This is the category where the tire meets the road (or where the wheelsets meet the rails)!

To earn this certificate, you must prepare one original scale drawing of a model railroad track plan, identifying overall size, scale, track elevations, curve radii, and turnout sizes. There are specific requirements for what must be included in this drawing on the NMRA website here: http://www.nmra.org/education/achievement/ap_civil.html

After preparing the scale drawing, you must then construct and demonstrate the satisfactory operation of a completed section of the model railroad and track work described in the scale drawing. There are again specific linear feet requirements for differing scales that can be found at the link above. When doing the trackwork, you must include appropriate ballast, drainage facilities, and roadbed profile, which may contain spurs, yards, etc. Construct for Merit Judging, scratch built scale models of any three of the following, and demonstrate their satisfactory operation (the three must achieve Merit status):

• Turnout (point or stub)
• Crossover
• Double Crossover
• Single Slip Switch
• Double Slip Switch
• Crossing
• Gauntlet Track
• Gauntlet Turnout
• Dual Gauge Turnout
• Gauge Separation Turnout (Narrow gauge splitting off from dual gauge)
• Double Junction Turnout (One set of parallel tracks diverges from another)
• Three-Way Turnout
• Spring Switch
• Operating Switch in Overhead Wire
• Other ___________

Note: Commercial frogs are not permitted to be used in any of these items. These models may be built and demonstrated as part of the layout or separately.

I believe that we have a number of RR-L members who have either completed these requirements or are currently working on them. I hope that they jump in here with some insights and pictures.
Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29993

wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 02/10/2009 :  1:24:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bruce,

I would think many forum members have built track using the Fast Tracks jigs. I have been contemplating the purchase of one to use for constructing my classification yard. And, the yard will include a crossover and turnout, meeting 2 out of 3 requirements. I was also thinking of building a gauntlet track as a static display, again using the jigs to help with the critical components.

Chuck



Country: | Posts: 6295 Go to Top of Page

elwoodblues
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 02/10/2009 :  3:11:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit elwoodblues's Homepage  Send elwoodblues a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I've been thinking about the NMRA achievement program and have been thinking that this one would be the best place to start for me as I think I have most of it done already. As for the track plan (i.e. scale drawing) it's done, as I used it in building my railway, just need to add elevations and clean it up a bit. It was drawn in Autocad so cleaning it up will not be a problem.

I have built, installed and is in use, a turnout and a crossover so I only need to do one more, given the list it won't be a problem.

My problem is the " When doing the trackwork, you must include appropriate ballast, drainage facilities, and roadbed profile" part. My railway is a rundown, run by the seat of the pants narrow gauge operation where drainage facilities and roadbed profile are not very good. That being said, the track is on cork so with the ballast there is a "profile", just not a pronounced on. I'm not sure if this would qualify for the requirement. Also how much track has to be ballasted to meet the requirements. Currently I only have about 2 feet of track ballasted (needed to do it for a cover shot for the article I wrote in the On30 annual on hand laying track). I model in O scale so I need 75 feet of track to quality but it doesn't say say how much of it has to be ballasted.

The rules also state that the track components used have to be judged and receive at least 87.5 merit points but I don't know what the criteria is (what are the points based on).

Gee I have more questions than I thought I had


Ron Newby
General Manager
Clearwater Valley Railway Co.
http://cvry.ca

Country: Canada | Posts: 6443 Go to Top of Page

jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 02/10/2009 :  9:54:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I've done almost everything I need for the Civil AP - all that remains is to superdetail a crossover and a diamond that I built years ago, so they'll qualify for Merit). I have had a turnout judged, and it didn't exceed 87 points by much; my judge was looking for prototypical details. I had the right kind of switch stand, a CTC contactor for the points, but I hadn't done joint bars, tie plates, rail braces or bolts for the frog. Scratchbuilding gets points, so does prototypical accuracy. I looked on the NMRA web site just now, but didn't find anything in writing. What I was told was to go for top points, work from a prototype photo, and try to model everything you see in it. Then show the photo to the judge.

One thing that my regional AP person was a little dismayed to discover is that although modules at contests are judged by the standards and points are given out, points awarded to modules don't count for anything in the AP; I do get 16 square feet of finished scenery for Rowley and Rowley River, but that's all.



Country: USA | Posts: 5243 Go to Top of Page

mwbpequod
Fireman



Posted - 03/27/2009 :  08:15:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[quoteOne thing that my regional AP person was a little dismayed to discover is that although modules at contests are judged by the standards and points are given out, points awarded to modules don't count for anything in the AP; I do get 16 square feet of finished scenery for Rowley and Rowley River, but that's all.[/quote]

Depending on what is on your module, one could count towards a Prototype Models Certificate...


___________________________________________________________________
After the first glass, you see things as you wish they were.
After the second, you see things as they are not.
Finally, you see things as they really are, and that is the most horrible thing in the world.

Country: USA | Posts: 1510 Go to Top of Page

jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/10/2009 :  10:30:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm planning to ask the AP people to judge a switch at Hartford National for Merit towards this award. I started off by visiting Hampton, NH, where the B&M's track has remained pretty much untouched since the 1950s.



This switch uses 100 lb. rail and was put in after passenger service ended, because it isn't bonded and insulated for track circuits.



It's hard to see from this angle, but there's no insulation in the joint in the reinforcing plate just beyond the points. Still, it uses the classic B&M switch stand with lantern spike. I'm not sure I'm going to try to do the bonding anyway - it's tiny and I don't know how it will stand up to track cleaning on a module that participates in shows.

Things that stand out are the reinforcing plate, adjustable braces in the area of the points, joint bars and the bolts on the frog. Next step is to dig through the "track" parts drawer and consult Walthers.



Country: USA | Posts: 5243 Go to Top of Page

railmus
Fireman



Posted - 05/11/2009 :  10:24:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit railmus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Just got the "official" notification that I had earned the "Civil Engineering Certificate". I had handlaid some track for a 12' module a long time ago (20 years)so I already had some experience. So I cut in a curved turnout into my current layout, but did a gauntlet and a 30 degree crossing on separate boards. For the latter two I used FastTracks templates off of Tim’s site.

I enjoyed 'handlaying' these and did not use the FastTracks jigs (but they would have made many parts of the construction easier). I cut my own ties on my bandsaw and this is worth extra points.
I did not include a switch stand but did ballast and put in splice bars etc. I will included a switchstand on the curved turnout on my layout.

I have included some pics of the models as well as two pics of a 90 degree crossing on display at the Elgin County Railway Museum in St. Thomas, Ontario.
















Edited by - railmus on 05/11/2009 10:28:11 PM

Country: Canada | Posts: 1931 Go to Top of Page

northern6400
Fireman



Posted - 05/12/2009 :  3:54:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations John. Well done!!!

Chuck Faist
Burlington, Ontario
Enjoy yourself it is later than you think!

Country: Canada | Posts: 3489 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 05/12/2009 :  4:55:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
James, that looks like a great project. Please keep us posted.

John, congratulations! Thanks for sharing the projects that contributed to your Certificate.


Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29993 Go to Top of Page

jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/12/2009 :  10:11:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looking for rail detailing parts, I found I had a set of Central Valley 'Switch Detailing Parts' (210-1603). I'll try a test application of the joint bars and frog bolts. I don't need the switchstands, guardrails or headblocks, which take up a lot of the sprue area.

Digging up other parts required some time with Google, as people call "joint bars" all kinds of names: I'll probably order both these (http://www.proto87.com/accurate-track.html) and the Details West 235-931 to compare. Neither is for the Code 100 I had to use due to module standards, but I'll see how they look.

Meanwhile, the proto87 etched tie plates got me thinking: I don't want to relay the track (I have enough to do on my layout without building a one-off just for the AP), but perhaps I can retrofit them with a paintbrush:



This is done with Floquil Rail Brown and a #0 brush. Examining the photo, I think the tie plates contrast well with the ties, but they're probably too light compared to the rail. Perhaps I should try re-painting the rail.



Edited by - jbvb on 05/13/2009 8:44:12 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 5243 Go to Top of Page

jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/23/2009 :  9:05:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm waiting on some parts, but I did get the frog area detailed. You have to look hard at normal viewing distances, but:



I attached the CV frog bolt strip and the joiner bars with Weldwood contact cement. The contact cement is more visible in the photo than the most distant joiner bar. But it does show in photos at this magnification, so I may do another few feet elsewhere (where I'm not required to use Code 100 by the module standards) and try some rolling stock shots. The spikes I'm using in new construction are smaller, I hope they look better...



Country: USA | Posts: 5243 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 05/24/2009 :  08:54:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It looks good, James. Whose spikes are you using, and what size are they?

Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29993 Go to Top of Page

jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/24/2009 :  1:02:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I built the switch I started with about 20 years ago, and I can't recall what spikes I used. Currently I'm using Micro-Engineering "small" most of the time, and their "micro" where I have the patience to pre-drill holes in my basswood ties. That's what I used on the side of the frog where I applied the bolt strip, and I probably ought to summon the energy to re-spike the whole switch with them...


Country: USA | Posts: 5243 Go to Top of Page

jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/24/2009 :  11:13:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I spent a while on spikes this afternoon:



The small spikes are Micro-Engineering "Micro Spikes", which are .016 diameter (1.25 scale inch). The larger ones are "Small", which I tried in the holes left from pulling the originals (see near track). It doesn't look bad in person, the photo reveals a desperate need for weathering... In that era, the section gangs actually greased the joint bars annually (they still do on preserved RRs in the UK), which will help.

I think I'm pretty much finished until my DW rail brace castings arrive for the point area. The original switch, with switchstand and signal contactor, got 87 points, so I've probably added enough for a Merit, and the Code 100 rail I started with makes this a "sow's ear" job anyway.

And should I ever get really fanatic about track, the B&M was a heavy user of "self-guarded" frogs (guardrail function performed by flanges on the edge of the frog casting, article in MR long ago, probably requires Proto87 wheels to work well) in yards. This particular switch actually had a sprung frog (closed up for the mainline route like old Tru-Scale, the physics are impossible for HO scale unless I power it). Avert...




Country: USA | Posts: 5243 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 05/24/2009 :  11:22:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
James,

I know that there is quite a difference between the ME 'small' and 'micro' spikes. I've started using the micros on some Code 55 HOn3 rail I've been laying. Drilling the starter holes is a pain...

Here's the comparison:



Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29993 Go to Top of Page

jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/24/2009 :  11:38:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I handlaid a spur using Code 55 and Micro Spikes. Without drilling, I bent maybe 1 in 5. On this job, I drilled #78 and only bent 4 of maybe 100 (I didn't do 'spike every tie' on the back sides of the rails, as it isn't viewable from that direction).


Country: USA | Posts: 5243 Go to Top of Page
Page: of 9 Previous Topic: Carrie Creek Land Co. construction series Topic Next Topic: The Bonaventure & Chambly  
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Next Page
Jump To:
Railroad Line Forums © 2000-17 Railroad Line Co. Go To Top Of Page
Steam was generated in 0.52 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000