Announcement

**PaulD** · 08-08-2005, 10:02 PM

Absolutely Wallace, in fact my father and I are working on an 1-3/4" gauge live steam K1 Beyer Garret, a 7-1/4" gauge Forney as well as numerous other live steam projects. Always interested in comparing notes.

PaulD[:-sly]

**Hauk** · 08-09-2005, 03:11 AM

I am not scratchbuilding steam engines, but if you take a closer look on the driving wheels of the engine I am going to tackle next, we might have something to talk about after all!

I scratchbuild boxcab electrics in 0m gauge (1/45, 22,22 mm gauge), and I think that a lot of my challenges are the same as a modeller building steam engines in any scale. We all have to find drivers, build mechanisms, cast parts, maybe do some etching, etc. etc.

Hope to see more postings on scratchbuilding engines, regardless of scale and prototype!

**nalmeida** · 08-09-2005, 04:05 AM

I like scratchbuilding a lot Wallace but steam loco's are some of the most dificult examples to start on

At the moment I'm on little diesel critters.

Hauk, judging from your previous work I'll be looking forward to your progress on future projects.

**Hauk** · 08-09-2005, 05:51 AM

quote:

Originally posted by nalmeida

Hauk, judging from your previous work I'll be looking forward to your progress on future projects.

Thanks a lot!

My main reason for taking all the trouble to scratchbuild an engine in brass is to get an unique, true to the prototype model.

So I will start by visiting the dusty archives of the company that owned these engines. I have already found out that the archives containes several *large* manillla folders with the original blueprints for the engines. Its at least 50 large blueprints (around 45" X 30"). From these drawings and my own measurements I will prepare a set of CAD drawings. The CAD drawings will be the basis for the etchings artwork.

So there will be at least a couple of years before I can post any pictures of the actual model under construction!

**Wallace** · 08-09-2005, 01:09 PM

Gentlemen: My experience is limited to HO gauge scratch-built steam locomotives. Los Angeles, California, has an excellent live-steam group that operates for the public in Griffith Park on weekends, but their work is outside my interests and time. I hope, however, that ideas can be posted by metal-worker "scratchers".

**woodman40** · 08-12-2005, 01:01 PM

The very best primer to scratch building a steam locomotive is the very old MR article by Mel Thornburgh. It details, in multiple issues, the steps to build an O scale Wabash Mogul. The techinques are valid in most scales, depending upon the age of your unaided eyeballs. I used it to put wonderful open frames under a couple of Carey boilered locos. Article ends in June 1959, I know that 'cause I have that issue open right now.

**PaulD** · 08-13-2005, 02:17 AM

Wallace,

HO SCALE LIVE STEAMERSid="size3">id="blue">

Wow that sounds interesting, how do you fire them? Spirits? Ballast size coal? I've part built an 1-3/4" 0:6:0 single inside cylinder but HO scale [:-scared]

I'd like you to share a little more there, do you use outside valve gear? inside single cylinder? What valve motion are you interested in or use at that scale?

I saw the Hornby HO live steamer at an exhibition in June it looked great, lots of steam and oil drops everywhere, not sure I'd want that inside over my home layout.

Woodman

Speaking of reference material, have any of you guys & gals checked out the offerings of Camden Miniature Steam Services:

Barrow Farm, Rode, NR Frome Somerset BA11 6PS

Phone 01373 830151

orders@camdenmin.demon.co.uk

(I haven't checked that email link)

There catalogue is Dangerous[:-scared]

I could spend thousands on all the miniature workshop stuff they have, let alone the construction manuals like

Building the Climax [Hiraoka] or Building the Heisler [Hiraoka] I must get those 2 !!

PaulD[:-tophat]

**Wallace** · 08-14-2005, 08:34 PM

To Paul D: I apologize if I have left an erroneous impression. I have built HO gauge models of steam locomotives, operated by electric motors. I did know of a gentleman who built an HO live-steam locomotive, but that was over 45 years ago; I saw the model on display, but not operating. MR had an article once about a man who built a "cold-steam" locomotive; it ran on dry ice, contained in the tender. His name was Emil Vollenweider, and upon his passing, the locomotive was offered for sale in MR. There was no word about a buyer, however.

My reference to Live-Steam locos was meant to refer to the Live Steam Club in Griffith Park, Los Angeles, California.

There was another gentleman on this board who showed a picture of an HO brass loco he was building, but I have not seen any postings since. I realize that the availability of numerous models from the Far East may have discouraged scratch-building, but the satisfaction of placing something on the track that you have built from the ground up cannot be matched by a good paint job, decaling, and weathering on something you have bought.

This board is replete with evidence of the abilities of car and structure scratch-builders; where are the metal workers?

**RodH** · 08-14-2005, 11:56 PM

quote:

Originally posted by Wallace

Is anyone on the Forum interested in exchanging ideas on scratch-building Steam locomotives?

I am embarking on two projects in HOn30.

1 - To kit bash a Climax B-Class from 18 to 25ton.

2 - To scratchbuild a loco that was kit bashed built from on Orrenstien & Koppel 50HP 0-4-0.
Ezard's Hybrid Loco

I'll keep you posted on both.

**Wallace** · 08-15-2005, 09:57 AM

Mr. Hutchinson: I hope you can provide a lighhter picture of the mechanism of the crosshead and valve gear area of a most intriguing locomotive. It appears to be what American practice refers to as an "alligator" type. The method by which power is transfered to the axles is also indistinct, but is probably similar to the American "Climax" or "Heisler" locomotives. The superstructure has the virtue of (apparent) simplicity, and the stack is available from a manufacturer. The dome, if scratch-built, will require quite a bit of filing to match the boiler curve, unless you have a substantial milling machine and a cutter of appropriate diameter. I hope you can provide pictures of your model as it progresses.

**MikeC** · 08-15-2005, 11:36 AM

For the newer members who might have missed examples of Wallace's scratchbuilt locos and rolling stock, click on these links:

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/t...?TOPIC_ID=7057

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/t...?TOPIC_ID=7068

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/t...?TOPIC_ID=8896

**PaulD** · 08-16-2005, 12:25 PM

Wallace,

Thanks to MikeC I now have a clearer picture of where your coming from. (Not live steam HO)

This talk on scratchbuilding has lit an old fire under me! I had done a lot of research in the late 90's to pull together enough info on scratchbuilding in Hon3. The problem then as now was Drivers. After viewing your fantastic scratchbuilds I really don't think I could teach you anything, I believe you could inspire all of us with your experience.

Yesterday I went through all my notes and reference material, most helpful of which is the NWSL power planning kit, it is a great start for gearing and power ratio's. Second is the 4mm Engine - a scratchbuilders guide Wild Swan publishers

www.scalefour.org/e4um/books.htm

This is a great reference and although British and 00 is relevant to all modelling.

Third is the collection of articles starting in October 1997 in MR titled Sratchbuilding a brass loco. Which I copied out and bound into a book to make it more accessible, this is the most up to date reference I've found using Bowser parts which are, I believe, readily available.

The last link is to a recreational metalworking web page that is co hosted by Cyrill Collins who also has an 00_HO_scratchbuilding mailing list which discusses Model building along your lines. I'll have to find the link but the metal working site is below.

http://www.metalwebnews.com/

PaulD[:-sly]

**RodH** · 08-16-2005, 06:53 PM

quote:

Originally posted by Wallace

Mr. Hutchinson: I hope you can provide a lighhter picture of the mechanism of the crosshead and valve gear area of a most intriguing locomotive.

Mr. Hutchinson is a bit formal for me; Rod is fine.

The valve gear/crosshead is Allen Motion similar to http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/akpevt3br89.htm It's from an 50HP 0-4-0 Orrenstein & Koppel locomotive as is the cab and we think the front of the boiler. The bogies are Australian built by Day's Engineering here in Melbourne.

For my model Nigel Lawton http://www.geocities.com/nigellawton009/VeeTipper.html is making etched bogies with 5.2 mm diam. NWSL wheels and Tenshodo worm and gear for me. Bogie axles are 8.2mm apart. The lay shaft sticks out of the end of the bogies in towards the centre of the loco, (Like a Climax).
The motor is Falhauber 0816 with 4:1 gearbox and I will have to build a transfer box down to the lay shafts and connect with NWSL couplings.

**Wallace** · 08-16-2005, 09:40 PM

I am greatly heartened to see that scratch- building locomotives is not entirely a lost art.

I had the experience of making right-angle gears for a narrow-gauge RGS "Goose" for a friend. As originally built, the gearing had no speed reduction, and it ran about 100 scale miles-per-hour. Having a lathe with an indexing capability, I was able to turn blanks with faces of 55 degrees, of different diameters, then literally scraping the teeth by dragging the tool-bit progressively deeper to gouge out the teeth. I simply used the tool bit as a Shaper, to create the gear teeth.

With two double-reduction sets of gears, the top speed became quite a bit better, the the model stayed on the track when it came to a curve.

That model of an Australian locomotive may lack extensive detail, but building the mechanism looks like a great deal of fun, from the design to the execution. I hope we can see progressive pictures as your model takes shape.

Announcement

Scratch-building locomotives

Scratch-building locomotives

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment