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**GNMT76** · 10-17-2020, 08:03 AM

James and Louis,

Thank you for the offer.

I've since found that I can open three of the 227 images at a time in One Drive, then download them as photos in IrfanView. From there I can enlarge the images and the text so that it's readable. However, the text is all about the technical details for construction: dimensions, paint colors, materials from which the signs are to be made, specs for the posts and the like. Helpful, but incomplete. There's not a word about their use or placement, the particulars I was after in the first place.

If you can tell me how to attach photos from IrfanView, I'll send you a few. Alternatively, if you want to send me your e-mail address in a PM, I can also send them as an attachment in G-mail.

So Louis, the images you sent above may be the best I can hope for, as they contain the key information I wanted to know.

**desertdrover** · 10-17-2020, 09:29 AM

quote:

Originally posted by GNMT76

James and Louis,

Thank you for the offer.

I've since found that I can open three of the 227 images at a time in One Drive, then download them as photos in IrfanView. From there I can enlarge the images and the text so that it's readable. However, the text is all about the technical details for construction: dimensions, paint colors, materials from which the signs are to be made, specs for the posts and the like. Helpful, but incomplete. There's not a word about their use or placement, the particulars I was after in the first place.

If you can tell me how to attach photos from IrfanView, I'll send you a few. Alternatively, if you want to send me your e-mail address in a PM, I can also send them as an attachment in G-mail.

So Louis, the images you sent above may be the best I can hope for, as they contain the key information I wanted to know.

Thanks! Good to know my post was helpful for you.

I sent email address if you'd like to send a sample of what you received. :up:

**jbvb** · 10-17-2020, 12:16 PM

Louis's image on page 1 of this thread includes explanation of some common signs. The purpose and location of some others may be found in an Employees' Timetable, or in the Rule Book. Others, like "Use Air Brake While Switching This Track" , "Will Not Clear Man On Side Of Car" and "No Trespassing" are self-explanatory. Feel free to type the text of those you can't figure out here, and we'll see what we can do.

**GNMT76** · 10-17-2020, 12:54 PM

quote:

Originally posted by jbvb

Louis's image on page 1 of this thread includes explanation of some common signs. The purpose and location of some others may be found in an Employees' Timetable, or in the Rule Book. Others, like "Use Air Brake While Switching This Track" , "Will Not Clear Man On Side Of Car" and "No Trespassing" are self-explanatory. Feel free to type the text of those you can't figure out here, and we'll see what we can do.

Those two publications were recommended to me by a retired railway engineer two months ago. However, they don't contain what I'm after and have very few, if any, graphics. They're about 99% text.

**GNMT76** · 12-26-2020, 11:25 AM

quote:

Originally posted by desertdrover

quote:

Originally posted by GNMT76

James and Louis,

Thank you for the offer.

I've since found that I can open three of the 227 images at a time in One Drive, then download them as photos in IrfanView. From there I can enlarge the images and the text so that it's readable. However, the text is all about the technical details for construction: dimensions, paint colors, materials from which the signs are to be made, specs for the posts and the like. Helpful, but incomplete. There's not a word about their use or placement, the particulars I was after in the first place.

If you can tell me how to attach photos from IrfanView, I'll send you a few. Alternatively, if you want to send me your e-mail address in a PM, I can also send them as an attachment in G-mail.

So Louis, the images you sent above may be the best I can hope for, as they contain the key information I wanted to know.

Thanks! Good to know my post was helpful for you.

I sent email address if you'd like to send a sample of what you received. :up:

Louis,

I'm at the point now when I can put a few trackside signs on the layout. For starters, I'm using a few of those you provided.

What your diagrams don't indicate is the height of the post for each sign and the point on each post when each sign goes. I understand those factors vary according to the type of sign, its location and even the road name.

Because of my layout's train service (freight only) and small size, I'm likely limited to the ones below and perhaps another one or two if I can find them:

1) the "W" whistle sign

2) a speed limit sign or two

3) yellow RR crossings with the "X" symbol

4) a sign for the town's name

Can you fill me in on post heights and sign positions on them?

Many thanks and a Happy New Year!

**desertdrover** · 12-26-2020, 12:50 PM

You will have to second guess the heights of the signs. One known for sure is the (W) Whistle sign, and can be used to judge the height of the others.

In the classic railroad era each company usually had their own style of wayside signs they used, although one which became universal was the whistle post, usually a concrete post around 4 feet tall with a large "W" engraved or painted on it, as you know, for informing railroad engineers to begin sounding the whistle (in the diesel era it is the air horn) at that location.

And use the Crossing picture below as a visual guide.

This is the only information I can offer you.

**GNMT76** · 12-26-2020, 01:10 PM

quote:

Originally posted by desertdrover

You will have to second guess the heights of the signs. One known for sure is the (W) Whistle sign, and can be used to judge the height of the others.

In the classic railroad era each company usually had their own style of wayside signs they used, although one which became universal was the whistle post, usually a concrete post around 4 feet tall with a large "W" engraved or painted on it, as you know, for informing railroad engineers to begin sounding the whistle (in the diesel era it is the air horn) at that location.

And use the Crossing picture below as a visual guide.

This is the only information I can offer you.

Thanks, Louis!

One of my Kalmbach books ("Trackwork and Lineside Detail" by Kent Johnson), I've since reminded myself, has some practical information, drawings and photos for a number of these signs and different lines. Time to re-read those chapters.

You wrote "One known for sure is the (W) Whistle sign, and can be used to judge the height of the others" but didn't cite or mention the post's height. It's not on the sheet you provided last fall. Can you please clarify?

My e-mail notification tells me you just sent two replies to this question nine mimutes apart. Did you actually send two, as I see only one on the forum?

**desertdrover** · 12-27-2020, 10:39 AM

The second line of that posts said it was 4 feet tall. (In the classic railroad era each company usually had their own style of wayside signs they used, although one which became universal was the whistle post, usually a concrete post around 4 feet tall with a large "W" engraved or painted on it).

**GNMT76** · 12-27-2020, 11:58 AM

quote:

Originally posted by desertdrover

The second line of that posts said it was 4 feet tall. (In the classic railroad era each company usually had their own style of wayside signs they used, although one which became universal was the whistle post, usually a concrete post around 4 feet tall with a large "W" engraved or painted on it).

Now how did I miss that!? [B)] Four feet it is. And my Kalmbach book does indeed have some good information I can use for my signs. Construction is under way as we speak.

**desertdrover** · 12-28-2020, 04:39 AM

Well, what do you know, thanks to you bringing up that book by Kalmbach, I too have it and forgot all about it. I see the Lineside Detail starting at chapter #24 gives quite a bit of information. Over the many years I've been railroad modeling, I have books I bought twice forgetting I had them already.

**GNMT76** · 12-28-2020, 06:49 AM

Kalmbach's books and a few from Atlas have been my prime learning resources for model railroading for years. Although some of the information in the Trackside and Lineside Detail text is inconsistent from one type of sign to another, it's a great beginning!

**GNMT76** · 01-04-2021, 07:30 AM

quote:

Originally posted by desertdrover

Well, what do you know, thanks to you bringing up that book by Kalmbach, I too have it and forgot all about it. I see the Lineside Detail starting at chapter #24 gives quite a bit of information. Over the many years I've been railroad modeling, I have books I bought twice forgetting I had them already.

Louis,

This is likely the final word on this topic, as it appears clear that such a book or resource simply does not exist.

I even contacted Jerry Dziedzic, Model Railroader's opertions columnist, who could only suggest the same two books others have that don't even come close to presenting the details I'm after. The two pages of diagrams and concise descriptions you sent last fall remain, then, the definitive authority!

So as Edward R. Murrow used to say, "Good night and good luck."

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