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Do we have an aversion to using Solvent based pain

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  • #16
    quote:


    Originally posted by Michael Hohn


    .....nor do they cause reproductive problems. Other, more complex organic solvents such as toluene and benzene are pure trouble requiring the precautions we have discussed above.

    Mike


    Given the age of the average model railroader, we're probably not worried about the latter anyway
    CEO, Lancre Valley Steam navigation Co.

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    • #17
      I


      quote:


      Originally posted by Wulf
      quote:


      Originally posted by Michael Hohn


      .....nor do they cause reproductive problems. Other, more complex organic solvents such as toluene and benzene are pure trouble requiring the precautions we have discussed above.

      Mike




      Given the age of the average model railroader, we're probably not worried about the latter anyway

      Hah! I tend to forget that I'm not 25 any more.
      I suspect that a large part of society's aversion to the more dangerous solvents is the potential hazard during manufacturing and shipping, not just the personal danger.

      I do object to the smell and usually put brushes and rags in the garage of outside so I don't have to smell them. Of course I have to admit to also objecting to those so-called air fresheners that plug in and emit all kinds of unpleasant fragrance. I've used some water-based stains that are not at all pleasant to smell.

      Mike
      _________________________________________________

      Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. James Baldwin

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      • #18
        Hi All

        they may be less toxic, but acrylic paints do contain solvents of some type. If they did not, they would require some type of drying agent other than "air". They just are not as potent.

        I've been on job sites where the painters are going to town with airless sprayers applying acrylic lacquers. I had one employee get really sick and had to send him packing. Another got a bad buzz.

        Acrylic is just safer than petroleum solvents.

        Give me an old fashioned nitrocellulose lacquer over all these new fangled acrylic paints. Nothing looks and feels as good.

        Mike M

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        • #19
          I have both acrylics and solvent based paints. As previously mentioned the newer acrylics are much easier for cleanup so I prefer to use those, especially for weathering when I'm changing colors frequently. However there are a few colors that acrylics don't seem to get right like graphite or other metallic color.

          I also have a fairly good airbrush booth with a strong exhaust fan so the fumes aren't a major concern to me.

          Comment


          • #20
            quote:


            Originally posted by closetguy

            ...

            Give me an old fashioned nitrocellulose lacquer over all these new fangled acrylic paints. Nothing looks and feels as good.



            I've been playing around with various sealers to apply to wood before using acrylics over them. (I find standard oil-based wood primers have too much body at HO scale.)
            A celly lacquer from a rattle can is next on my list. (You can still get them from guitar finishing specialists.)

            Cheers,

            Jeff.

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            • #21
              quote:


              I suspect that a large part of society's aversion to the more dangerous solvents is the potential hazard during manufacturing and shipping, not just the personal danger.


              These days all you have to do is say chemical of solvent and the herd runs screaming away in terror........without you even having to state what the solvent is and whether or not there is any real hazard involved.

              I periodically like to torment such folks with a tale about the most commonly used solvent and how it causes more deaths per year than any other, was determined to be highly toxic by the US Navy, and how it is tragically available to almost all............something called water.

              quote:


              I do object to the smell and usually put brushes and rags in the garage of outside so I don't have to smell them. Of course I have to admit to also objecting to those so-called air fresheners that plug in and emit all kinds of unpleasant fragrance. I've used some water-based stains that are not at all pleasant to smell.


              Being a bench chemist for [:-censored] decades now, I tend to not worry too much about the ever so lovely aromas originating from my shop. However, I can't begin to tolerate the perfume and soap areas of the various department stores - my eyes water, sinuses go amuck, and I scurry away as fast as I can.....

              And, I still used Floquil - got a few years worth in the rack of the colors that I routinely use, lacquer thinner, and any solvent glues like Tenax and MEK, but then I also have a small wall of Polly Scale....and there's another decade of paint at least. Cans off Rustoleum primers.....

              I love the smell of solvents in the shop!
              In a time like ours seemings and portents signify. Ours is a generation when dogs howl and the skin crawls on the skull with its beast's foreboding.

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              • #22
                I suspect that most of us try to use solvent based paints in a ventilated area. I also believe, but have no proof, that the close, in your face proximity of solvents when using a brush probably has very little long term effects on us as we are just not exposed to high enough concentrations for long periods of time. I further suspect that the largest issue we encounter with solvent and acrylic paints is when we use the airbrush. The fine mist created can be inhaled and can inflame the nasal, mouth, throat and lung mucus membranes, where solvents are broken down and can easily be transferred into the body. The same also applies to our eyes.

                I speculate that as long as we try to use solvent based products in a ventilated area and wear a canister filter mask when spraying solvent products, our hobby is probably not doing us any harm. I postulate that we are in more danger from the X-acto blades we play with.

                For myself, I've moved to acrylics due to safety concerns. With solvent products I always have to deal with the solvent soaked rags and their storage as well as trying to clean up in a 'environmentally friendly' way.

                I concur that with the use of most hobby acrylics the paint coverage allowed by the very finely ground pigments in the old Folquil products is just not there. That said, there are some very fine acrylic product lines which come very close to the old Folquil products in my experience. The Vallejo acrylics being one paint which works very well when brushed or used in an airbrush. I have also discovered that the professional artist fluid acrylics, like those made by Golden, provide a substantial improvement in coverage over the craft acrylics. My point is that the use of acrylics makes storage of ancillary items (rags) and clean-up a easier process with added safety. Higher end product line acrylics can come close to the solvent based products in many, but not all, applications.

                Acrylics however, are not the full answer to our modeling needs. Acrylics leave a plastic (latex?) film, which may be unwelcome. Consider the coloring of a plaster casting where a stone texture is desired. Thus, I think the selected medium is really up to the modeler, the viewing of the model (foreground, background or contest model) and the availability/cost of the various mediums along with application technique(s) being employed.

                Sorry for the short novel, but I wanted to fully express my thoughts on this wide scoped constructive thread topic.
                -- KP --

                Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

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                • #23
                  Kris, indeed a well written novel it is'.

                  Covers the entire synopsis'.. :up:


                  Ted

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I'm with KP, the Golden Fluid Acrylics are my New Favorite Paint. That's not to say anything bad against Vallejo, which I also like very much.

                    I'm still in search of the 'ultimate primer' for metal, something that I could spray in the house (occasionally) that provides good adhesion for acrylics.

                    dave
                    Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

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                    • #25
                      I have one bottle of Tru-Color paint in Grimy Black. I understand that these paints come thinned for use in an air-brush. Since I don't have an airbrush and after almost 60 years of not feeling the need, I'm not about to buy one. So, Tru-Color paints will not work for me. Also, Grimy Blacks should be flat and this has an almost glossy finish to it!

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                      • #26
                        I would agree that it's more of regulatory issue than it is users choice.

                        I also agree that at 64, I am not particularly worried about any reproductive issues that Viagra and Cialis can't fix. Luckily, as our beauty diminishes, so does our spouse's eyesight. Odd how that works out.
                        Home of the HOn3 North Coast Railroad, along the shores of Lake Ontario.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Mark....You can add some cornstarch to gloss paint and make it "flat". Its an old trick that still works. Some car modelers recommend adding talcum powder, but unless you get pure talc, you may be introducing some perfumes with an oil base. I understand that Tru-Color is working on more flat colors to add to their line-up. Another thought is if your paint goes on glossy, it is then ready for decals without first adding a gloss coat to a flat painted surface. Adding a dull coat over your decals is all that is left. And you have only applied two coats of paint instead of three. Tru-Color also thins with acetone. I prefer solvent based paints as I believe they get a better bite in plastic than acrylics. Some of the hobby mfg now are using Tru-Color for painting their RTR cars and kits.

                          I guess it boils down to what works best for a person and his or her individual taste. I still miss the old Floquil.

                          GULF COAST & WESTERN

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                          • #28
                            quote:


                            Originally posted by NP2626


                            I have one bottle of Tru-Color paint in Grimy Black. I understand that these paints come thinned for use in an air-brush. Since I don't have an airbrush and after almost 60 years of not feeling the need, I'm not about to buy one. So, Tru-Color paints will not work for me. Also, Grimy Blacks should be flat and this has an almost glossy finish to it!


                            What brand of air brush are you looking at, and what price range do you think is realistic for an air brush?


                            Ted

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                            • #29
                              I was a spray painter in the shipbuilding and heavy manufacturing industry for the better part of twenty years, and yes, in sufficient quantities these solvents can affect you. Having worked with Imron, marine epoxies, heavy metals including lead, zinc and copper, as well washing my hands in Xylene and MEK to get those paints off, I can absolutely guarantee that they will affect you. I could be the poster child for the anti solvent movement. I have memory and cognitive problems, Rheumatoid Arthritis, and C.O.P.D.I feel crummy most of the time, I was awarded Social Security disability 13 years ago at the age of 42. But I still use Floquil, spray paint and mineral spirits, I just do it with care.Hon3 rr said it best when he said


                              quote:


                              I speculate that as long as we try to use solvent based products in a ventilated area and wear a canister filter mask when spraying solvent products, our hobby is probably not doing us any harm. I postulate that we are in more danger from the X-acto blades we play with.


                              . Just be smart about it. Invest in a canister respirator, and keep the respirator in a zip lock bag when not using, the cartridges will last longer. Use some sort of ventilation. Be smart, and be safe. and have fun with it. I know I do.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                quote:


                                Originally posted by john holt


                                Mark....You can add some cornstarch to gloss paint and make it "flat". Its an old trick that still works. Some car modelers recommend adding talcum powder, but unless you get pure talc, you may be introducing some perfumes with an oil base. I understand that Tru-Color is working on more flat colors to add to their line-up. Another thought is if your paint goes on glossy, it is then ready for decals without first adding a gloss coat to a flat painted surface. Adding a dull coat over your decals is all that is left. And you have only applied two coats of paint instead of three. Tru-Color also thins with acetone. I prefer solvent based paints as I believe they get a better bite in plastic than acrylics. Some of the hobby mfg now are using Tru-Color for painting their RTR cars and kits.

                                I guess it boils down to what works best for a person and his or her individual taste. I still miss the old Floquil.


                                John, I use Grimy Black in the weathering process and have no need to put decals on it. Everything I paint is in flat colors, even the "Varnish" that becomes glossy after a clear gloss over coat.

                                quartergauger, You have missunderstood what I sad, as I have no interest in an air brush.

                                teaspoon, I have a canister respirator for the very few times I use rattle cans to spray my models with paint.

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