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  • #46
    Brad's call, but I'm just not feeling that one.

    For me, considering this is a railway built to a tight budget (the real one, not the model version), too much track, too many twists and turns, and I think some of the layering and positioning of the setting is making it feel too much like an overly compressed model puzzle, and less like how a prototype line would achieve what it needs to achieve. Operational extras, yes maybe, realistic feel, nup.

    Cheers,

    Dan Pickard
    http://www.austnarrowgaugeconvention.com/

    Comment


    • #47
      Brad's call, but I'm just not feeling that one.

      For me, considering this is a railway built to a tight budget (the real one, not the model version), too much track, too many twists and turns, and I think some of the layering and positioning of the setting is making it feel too much like an overly compressed model puzzle, and less like how a prototype line would achieve what it needs to achieve. Operational extras, yes maybe, realistic feel, nup.

      Cheers,

      Dan Pickard
      http://www.austnarrowgaugeconvention.com/

      Comment


      • #48
        Rob,

        Back at work today, so I just popped in to check. Version6 has some old and new ideas. The helix down will cure the vertical seperation issue to the low line going to the wharf. But I believe the seperation will cause issues with everything packed into this upper left corner. The line running around the back behind the Varden House will be rock face / cribing due to proximity of all the content. Do you have elevation snapshots?

        Right now Version5 is still prefered if the grading can be made to work. What do the grades on v5 come to? The one thing that I do not like in Version6 is the drop in aisle width. We had 30" to 36" wide, drop down to the 23's. I will conceed on radius and other model constrains but the people space is important for running and more so building and maintenance. Tonight I will put more thought to Version6 and slide my 3D concept to these positions.
        Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

        Comment


        • #49
          quote:


          Originally posted by BMW


          Rob,

          Back at work today, so I just popped in to check. Version6 has some old and new ideas. The helix down will cure the vertical seperation issue to the low line going to the wharf. But I believe the seperation will cause issues with everything packed into this upper left corner. The line running around the back behind the Varden House will be rock face / cribing due to proximity of all the content. Do you have elevation snapshots?

          Right now Version5 is still prefered if the grading can be made to work. What do the grades on v5 come to? The one thing that I do not like in Version6 is the drop in aisle width. We had 30" to 36" wide, drop down to the 23's. I will conceed on radius and other model constrains but the people space is important for running and more so building and maintenance. Tonight I will put more thought to Version6 and slide my 3D concept to these positions.


          Hi Brad and Dan,

          Please keep pointing out what you don't like with these designs, so I will only make new mistakes.

          I just got in from work, I will work out the grades for version #5 and post in an hour or so. I will also look at another version I thought of today that might solve some of the things both you and Dan pointed out.

          What is the acceptable minimum aisle width at choke points for you?

          Take care,

          Rob.

          Comment


          • #50
            Here are the elevations for the ore bunker in Version #5. It looks like it will work quite nicely.


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            • #51
              Hi Rob/Brad,

              Those elevations and curves in this most recent plan sound and look reasonable. Perhaps something to consider Brad, is from an operational point of view, some of the tighter curves will come into play as one of the operating challenges. A bit like on the prototype, where the Climax was used on the steeper grades at the top of the line, and then trains handed over to a smaller loco for the easier run towards the bottom, you could restrict locomotives onto the wharf areas as being only the smaller porters (to get safely around the companies decision to run tight curves and minimal right of way, and weight restrictions due to the construction of the wharf, just as a scenario). This would open up some switching chores as the porters take cars from the wharf to the Alice Arm yards, to then hand over to bigger locos to run things to the rest of the line.

              Rob, I think the only thing on this plan I would like to check, is the amount of scenic space left between the highline spur, and the mainline running around the outside. One of the key scenes from DVMR is the some of the housing that was located along the trackside running up this spur, which would likely be modelled in this area. For me, worse case scenario would just be moving these houses higher up the spur when some space becomes available around the curve, but ideally that scene happens at a lower point on the spur with a log crib wall and lots of junk around it. Hard to tell with some scales on your plan, but I would probably look for around 6-8" depth to model this row of houses between the two lines, so not sure how that measures in here.

              Cheers, and really enjoying the process going on here,

              Dan Pickard
              http://www.austnarrowgaugeconvention.com/

              Comment


              • #52
                quote:


                Originally posted by danpickard


                Hi Rob/Brad,

                Rob, I think the only thing on this plan I would like to check, is the amount of scenic space left between the highline spur, and the mainline running around the outside. One of the key scenes from DVMR is the some of the housing that was located along the trackside running up this spur, which would likely be modelled in this area. For me, worse case scenario would just be moving these houses higher up the spur when some space becomes available around the curve, but ideally that scene happens at a lower point on the spur with a log crib wall and lots of junk around it. Hard to tell with some scales on your plan, but I would probably look for around 6-8" depth to model this row of houses between the two lines, so not sure how that measures in here.

                Cheers, and really enjoying the process going on here,

                Dan Pickard


                Hi Dan,

                Would those houses be between the high line and the wharf track ... or the high line and the mainline? (Sorry, still waiting for my book.)

                Take care,

                Rob.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Rob,

                  Aisle width down the main door lane would be nice to hold 36" and choke down to no less than 32". In the secondary aisle at the top of the plan go no less than 30". The ends could be eclipse shaped with 24" rolling out to the 30" min.

                  As for the question of worker housing up the high line they are behind the rising spur. I will snap a few shots out of the book that show these scenes and email to you.
                  Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Rob,

                    In Version 6 I liked the Wolf mine track-work. I have a Stoney Creek Mine kit I was going to use to represent Wolf mine, and this area is looking good as there is nothing to say it did not look just like Roger designed it.

                    The solution to get the 8" separation was also what I was thinking in the earlier sketches. Your idea of going CCW and coming out to the front looks functional, it's just the space we have on that top wall would be all track. The elevation may provide enough scene division, maybe not. Can you snap a elevation shot down the aisle thru this area?

                    The Alice Arms area also is looking nice with its industries options, spurs ...etc. Due to the space I have the cropped corner backdrop is not a direction that is appealing.

                    In the last posting of Version 5 (with the elevations) can you post or send me the whole room. Looking to see the whole range of elevations as it passes thru the lounge, Dolly Varden mine, and ending at Wolf mine. Also looking at what elevations are planned going to the right. I can then put a few tape marks around the walls for feel of the height compared to the space and my height.

                    Ron, thanks for you patience so far with all our requests.
                    Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      quote:


                      Originally posted by BMW


                      Rob,

                      In Version 6 I liked the Wolf mine track-work. I have a Stoney Creek Mine kit I was going to use to represent Wolf mine, and this area is looking good as there is nothing to say it did not look just like Roger designed it.

                      The solution to get the 8" separation was also what I was thinking in the earlier sketches. Your idea of going CCW and coming out to the front looks functional, it's just the space we have on that top wall would be all track. The elevation may provide enough scene division, maybe not. Can you snap a elevation shot down the aisle thru this area?

                      The Alice Arms area also is looking nice with its industries options, spurs ...etc. Due to the space I have the cropped corner backdrop is not a direction that is appealing.

                      In the last posting of Version 5 (with the elevations) can you post or send me the whole room. Looking to see the whole range of elevations as it passes thru the lounge, Dolly Varden mine, and ending at Wolf mine. Also looking at what elevations are planned going to the right. I can then put a few tape marks around the walls for feel of the height compared to the space and my height.

                      Ron, thanks for you patience so far with all our requests.


                      Hi Brad,

                      Since it is a bit of work to work out all the elevations, I would really like to firm up the configuration of the mainline before I start playing around with them.

                      I don't mind small problem sections, but doing the whole layout would no doubt be wasted, since one change in the mainline could throw all the elevations out.

                      Usually adding elevations is the last thing I do before adding the 3D scenery and finalizing a plan, and we seem to be still in the rough draft stage.

                      I think we should play around with more configurations and then you pick the best of what you see.

                      EDIT: I just checked aisle width and the aisle from the door to man cave is only 30" ... the aisle along the north wall is 36". Will I fix this before we proceed?

                      Take care,

                      Rob.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Rob,

                        Understand process towards the elevation creation better now. I assumed it was elevation on the fly, but it seams like you start in 2D sketch and stay this way until much closer to finalized content. On the aisle issue yes fix them, even a 32" main aisle at points and 30" top aisle would work.
                        Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          quote:


                          Originally posted by BMW


                          Rob,

                          Understand process towards the elevation creation better now. I assumed it was elevation on the fly, but it seams like you start in 2D sketch and stay this way until much closer to finalized content. On the aisle issue yes fix them, even a 32" main aisle at points and 30" top aisle would work.


                          Hi Brad,

                          OK ... the aisle width is set at 32" for both aisleways. I won't be able to make the plan I mentioned above work and maintain those aisle width, so where do you want to go next? What do you want to see added to version #5 next?

                          Take care,

                          Rob.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Rob,

                            If the grades to the wharf and ore dock are OK now, the aisles are set, lets go up hill to the Dolly Varden / Camp 8 area, and on to Wolf mine.

                            From the images I sent you last night the long curved trestle will go nice just past the TV or in the corner just before the Dolly Varden / Camp 8 complex. Can you post or email a full layout shot of the updated Version 5a and I can sketch my vision thru here. We can go back down to Alice Arms and work out the right side last.

                            Your thoughts?

                            Thanks in advance.
                            Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Has anyone ever actually visited the Dolley Varden area? When we lived in BC for a couple of years, we never wandered very far up the coast.

                              dave
                              Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Rob,

                                New pictures of the Dolly Varden in another post on the site;

                                http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/t...TOPIC_ID=42433

                                Go to page 5 ....
                                Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

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