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Dolly Varden Mines Ry for Brad

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  • #31
    quote:


    Originally posted by BMW


    Rob,

    This is looking nice. Flow seems better, and as we work thru some scene development things will shake themselves out. One thing we could also do is shorten the aisles in the wye area, and to the right of the ore dock. This extra shelf depth will help with scene field of view. I am tall (6'2") and a little more reach will be OK for me. The 30" radius could also go to 24" -26" if that gains some room. I will scan the loco roster and send it to you. The DVRR had small equipment. I currently have 2 Forney's, a Shay, a 2-8-0, a 2-4-4-2 and a rail bus. The 2-8-0 and the 2-4-4-2 is for my office display and a show module I am also cooking in the background. The Forney's may get bobtailed if they present swing, or power pick-up issues. These will go with the Porters and Climax I plan on picking up this year. Porters will get tenders for the same reasons.

    From the software you are using what outputs for file types can you create. I would like to try importing a view of ver. 4 into the Inventor master model, and the aligning the 3D elements to your layouts. Better to try this when it's a smaller file size.

    Dan,

    Thanks for your insite and helpful suggestions. I will sketch out what it was thinking, and try to do the same with your suggestions. We will see how this plays out.


    Hi Brad,

    Dropping down to 24" or 26" would certainly gain us a lot more room to fudge the plan and I could also add easements to the curves to make the transition a bit more graceful. However, if you're happy with the plan as is, I would suggest staying with the 30" radius since I haven't run into any major headaches yet. I would strive to keep the biggest possible radius at least on the mainline, but secondary track (like the high line) might benefit from dropping down a few inches. As for file types, I can export to DFX or DWG, so I will email both.

    Take care,

    Rob.

    Comment


    • #32
      Rob,

      Sounds good. Lets contimue on.

      The travel lengths from the curved turnout to the wharf level and the high line are the next challange I see. Grade will be high. using the scale model of the ore dock we need 8.0" of elevation to clear.

      Download Attachment: 2014-03-23 Image 1.gif
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      Download Attachment: 2014-03-23 Image 2.gif
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      Download Attachment: 2014-03-23 Image 3.gif
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      Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

      Comment


      • #33
        quote:


        Originally posted by BMW


        Rob,

        Sounds good. Lets contimue on.

        The travel lengths from the curved turnout to the wharf level and the high line are the next challange I see. Grade will be high. using the scale model of the ore dock we need 8.0" of elevation to clear.


        Hi Brad,

        To get 8.0" of clearance under the lead for the bunker, we will need a grade of -7.14% from the turnout to under the ore bunker on the mainline and an 8.59% grade from turnout to the ore bunker on the highline and that's without any vertical easements.

        Take care,

        Rob.

        Comment


        • #34
          Rob,

          Like I said a isuue.

          The turnout will need to slide CCW to 12 or 1 o'clock. Maybe even entertain a helical loop down, under and around to set a better grade.
          Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

          Comment


          • #35
            As far as the steep grade, on our version to enable this rise quicker, there was also a downhill grade to the wharf level after that turnout up the highline spur. Might help take about 12" or more out of the length of the spur line if room is getting tight.

            Cheers,

            Dan Pickard
            http://www.austnarrowgaugeconvention.com/

            Comment


            • #36
              quote:


              Originally posted by danpickard


              As far as the steep grade, on our version to enable this rise quicker, there was also a downhill grade to the wharf level after that turnout up the highline spur. Might help take about 12" or more out of the length of the spur line if room is getting tight.

              Cheers,

              Dan Pickard


              Hi Dan,

              Those number are with a grade on both the high line and the mainline. I split the 8" rise between both of them.

              Take care,

              Rob.

              Comment


              • #37
                More food for thought.

                If we flip the ore dock 180° to the spot where the lumber scene was. Then the rise from the wharf to Alice Arms would rise up CW aroud the inside of the left end aisle. The high line can raise up a portion (splitting the diff.). This also puts the cabins back into the high line rise as a potential again. Purple line original track line, green high line, red wharf line, yellow switches.

                See attached image 4;

                Download Attachment: 2014-03-23 Image 4.gif
                78.21 KB
                Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

                Comment


                • #38
                  quote:


                  Originally posted by BMW


                  More food for thought.

                  If we flip the ore dock 180° to the spot where the lumber scene was. Then the rise from the wharf to Alice Arms would rise up CW aroud the inside of the left end aisle. The high line can raise up a portion (splitting the diff.). This also puts the cabins back into the high line rise as a potential again. Purple line original track line, green high line, red wharf line, yellow switches.

                  See attached image 4;


                  Hi Brad,

                  A small observation. As the plan is developing, we seem to be getting further and further away from the actual layout of the line and the more issues we run into, the farther we go. Of all the plans I have seen so far, my first version of the layout still seems to fit the room best and is closest to the Dolly Varden.

                  I realized that you wanted the plan altered because you wanted the ore bunker placed about 3 feet west of where I had it placed. Since then, it seems like where the ore bunker is placed doesn't really make that much of a difference.

                  I don't understand why a plan that solved a lot of issues we are having now and is closest to the real railway is not the best way to go.

                  Take care,

                  Rob.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I quite like Brad's latest render. Not sure how well that solves the grade issues, but your point is correct Rob, and goes back to a question I put forth a few pages ago...do you want to model Dolly Varden, or just elements of Dolly Varden?

                    The elements are quite nicely covered in the latest render of Brads, and I see some nice operating potential here (put a logging operation where the wharf was, with the Alice Arm area serving more of a dedicated switching point between the two industries), but it is getting further away from what Dolly Varden was actually about. Need to sit back a make a decision on what this model is about achieving.

                    Cheers,

                    Dan Pickard
                    http://www.austnarrowgaugeconvention.com/

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      quote:


                      Originally posted by danpickard


                      I quite like Brad's latest render. Not sure how well that solves the grade issues, but your point is correct Rob, and goes back to a question I put forth a few pages ago...do you want to model Dolly Varden, or just elements of Dolly Varden?

                      The elements are quite nicely covered in the latest render of Brads, and I see some nice operating potential here (put a logging operation where the wharf was, with the Alice Arm area serving more of a dedicated switching point between the two industries), but it is getting further away from what Dolly Varden was actually about. Need to sit back a make a decision on what this model is about achieving.

                      Cheers,

                      Dan Pickard


                      Hi Dan,
                      Although I haven't mocked it up yet, I am not sure it will work as Brad has planned. I also see 3 separate turns in this one corner now, so it is starting to get crowded. I'm pretty certain I will have to compromise the 30" radius to fit this in, so it becomes another issue. It seems like we now also getting away from a linear design with sincere scenes. I realize Brad had the final say, but I would like to know what direction to take with the design.

                      Take care,

                      Rob.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        quote:


                        Originally posted by BMW


                        More food for thought.

                        If we flip the ore dock 180° to the spot where the lumber scene was. Then the rise from the wharf to Alice Arms would rise up CW aroud the inside of the left end aisle. The high line can raise up a portion (splitting the diff.). This also puts the cabins back into the high line rise as a potential again. Purple line original track line, green high line, red wharf line, yellow switches.

                        See attached image 4;


                        Hi Brad,

                        Here's Version #5 with the changes made. I had to drop the radius used down to what is indicated on the plan.

                        Take care,

                        Rob.


                        Comment


                        • #42
                          The mental plan I am after, is if the Dolly Varden RR had survived and continued on. This is why all the "what if's". I am not so stuck on creating a exact linear plan as such, just the feel of the Dolly herself. Some scenes are needed to pull this off as Dan eludes too, but it all will not fit. I know, I keep trying. If I would of started this 10 years ago as I was building out the space, I would of left more railroad room. But family took priority on that front. I only could negotiate what I have.

                          If version four can be work into a safe grade then this is a direction of interest.

                          I am throwing out suggestions as options to observed issues. Debate is always better at working thru issues. It frees up directions of thought that may never of been entertained if one goes it alone. This is why I am here doing this. To learn, and evolve, so one day this layout may take shape and fill the space as best as it can.

                          This is above all else, a exercise in having fun.
                          Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Rob,

                            You are fast.

                            Version 5 looks more workable in grades. What grades are achived to the ore doc and wharf now?

                            The aisle can be pulled out further from the left corner to give more seperation /room to the three track scheme.
                            Essex Northern Railroad ~ “Emperor of the North”

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Hi Brad,

                              Ok, so Dolly Varden elements and feel is certainly easier than trying to reproduce the prototype. Definitely adds a lot more modellers licence to the project. A couple of other layouts I have seen which have just modelled scenes of Dolly Varden have been incorporated into quite complicated spaghetti bowl layouts, which I feel has kind of killed off some of that Dolly Varden simplicity. At least with the space you have here, you can still spread out in that linear way, but be able to shuffle the order slightly for artistic benefits

                              As far as the triple track setting around that north-west corner, I think it could be disguised with careful scenic treatment. If the mainline around the outer is still coming down grade a little (which will help as a higher starting point for the highline spur), but is still about 1" lower than the spur into that curve, the excess of track on that corner can be masked with the elevation changes and the mainline will essentially be emerging from a cutting (if the highline spur is the elevated line in the middle that splits the three tracks). The other scenic space this configuration will create is an even deeper cutting for the mainline to emerge from as it continues down the western wall, and out from behind the elevated highline spur. Perhaps even one of the small curved bridges out of that cutting would make for a nice view down the isle upon entering the doorway.

                              From an operational aspect, Alice Arm could now become quite a busy and challenging little yard to work with, as there will be management of empties and fulls from the mine/wharf/bunker coming from one direction, and potentially logging traffic from the eastern direction. As long as the curves and grades are working for you, the more I look at this current plan, the more I'm liking the feel of its flow. That change of direction for the mining runs as they come into Alice Arm (ie down from the mine, then switch back into the wharf or bunker) also helps to make the run feel even longer. Its not getting too track infested too, which is important when trying to portray a backwoods operation like this is.

                              There are also still enough key Dolly Varden elements in this configuration to get that story of the line across in the model. I think I really like this direction.

                              Cheers,

                              Dan Pickard
                              http://www.austnarrowgaugeconvention.com/

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Hi Brad & Dan,

                                If you want to trade off the linear design, it does open up the space to more possibilities. Since we are still looking at idea I figure I would throw this into the mix to see what you and Dan thought of it. The hidden track (in grey) is 24" radius, but as you can see, it opens up the operational end of things more and you can get more railway in the space.

                                (This would be version #6 since I cropped out the ledger.)

                                Take care,

                                Rob.


                                Comment

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