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Author Previous Topic: What to do with an old cast 0-4-0t dockside?  Dcc? Topic Next Topic: Suggestions for decent small steam in HO?
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Glen Haasdyk
Fireman



Posted - 04/14/2020 :  9:44:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Louis and Philip.
I'll try to cut the standard gauge axles first, if that doesn't work, I'll see about getting those from you.
Just in case, I do have a second set of standard gauge axles and gearboxes if you want to convert yours to standard gauge.
I'm still trying to figure out the new pickup wipers, I'd like to try the one piece ones like the template that Philip set first.



Country: Canada | Posts: 2453 Go to Top of Page

BigLars
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 04/14/2020 :  9:56:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Watching closely.
I have one here with a can motor and the replacement gear job is complete, that is where it stopped.
I need to finish it up but in ON30, DCC and sound with keep alive. I have an couple of upgrade kits and I also have a bunch of spare parts. If you need anything I might be able to help.



Country: USA | Posts: 11787 Go to Top of Page

desertdrover
Engineer



Posted - 04/14/2020 :  11:09:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know if this will help you, but I have one wiper pictured like the one Philip gave you the drawing for (first picture). The next two pictures show how I drilled a hole in the top mounting stud of a shay, and made-up a wiper using Phosphor-Bronze wire soldered to a wire, and slipped it into the hole in the stud (second picture) than wrapped the wire around the mounting stud (third picture) and used that as an electric pick-up wiper.




Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast
Post count: 5000 posts added to below count.

Country: USA | Posts: 16065 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 04/15/2020 :  08:46:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ambitious project, Glen. I have both Keystone and MDC shay kits 'on the shelf' along with the Shay book and an assortment of NWSL upgrade parts. Like many Campbell kits, I think a lot of the shay kits sit on one modeler's shelf for a few (many) years before finding a home on another modeler's shelf.

Kudos to you for taking one off the shelf and getting it on the rails!


Bruce

Country: USA | Posts: 32887 Go to Top of Page

George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 04/15/2020 :  10:45:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Glen, here's a picture of the HOn3 axles. The one end has a nylon insulated piece, causing the variation in dimensions. In scanning the instructions, NWSL says to press on the wheels and check the gauge as you do it. I'm thinking the insulated end allows for a little adjustment. I measured all six axles and here's what I got (total length and shoulder to shoulder).

0.766 0.355
0.766 0.358
0.771 0.363
0.762 0.357
0.763 0.360
0.761 0.354



George



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desertdrover
Engineer



Posted - 04/15/2020 :  11:03:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Glen I don't know if these are still available, but years ago I bought these phosphor-bronze contact wipers from Echo Mountain for my re-build. Scanned picture attached.




Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast
Post count: 5000 posts added to below count.

Country: USA | Posts: 16065 Go to Top of Page

Glen Haasdyk
Fireman



Posted - 04/15/2020 :  1:21:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Guys.
George, I have never seen MDC shay axles like those. All the ones that I've seen are straight with no 'shoulders' I have no idea how my wheels and gears would work with those since they all have the same diameter holes and the wheels are insulated to begin with.
Louis, I have seen those before, but I don't think they are available now. I just spent the last half-hour on the phone and I can't find anyone who stocks Phosphor-bronze in my area. I think I'll try making the wipers out of copper or brass and see how that works.
In the meantime I did successfully cut one of the standard gauge axles down to the width that Louis gave me. My Dremel tool with a reinforced cutting wheels went through it very easily without overheating it. Pictures later.



Edited by - Glen Haasdyk on 04/16/2020 4:18:08 PM

Country: Canada | Posts: 2453 Go to Top of Page

Glen Haasdyk
Fireman



Posted - 04/15/2020 :  7:14:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got the trucks together this afternoon. Starting with re-gauging the wheelsets



I used my NWSL Sensipress to disassemble and assemble the wheelsets. I also used a 4mm socket as a push tool. It had the right outside diameter to fit inside the gear teeth on the drive wheel. I checked each wheel several times during the process to make sure the final gauge was right.



After the wheels were assembled I made sure the gears were centered. These are the NWSL gears that are made of Delrin plastic and mesh better with the worms.


I then started to assemble the trucks. The drive shaft was a little tight on the ends so I opened the gearbox up slightly with a file. Then the shaft turned freely.



I also reworked the tops of the gearboxes. I sanded the tops flat and smooth with fine sandpaper (800g) The previous builder replaced the plastic truck mounting pins with some small screws. I can't be sure but I think they are 4-40 fine thread. I tapped new threads in the HOn3 trucks and inserted the screws. I believe that the mounting holes in the frame were countersunk for the screwheads.


I then installed the wheelsets and snapped the gearbox covers on. I did find some binds that were cause by the thrust washers bending over a bit and some other issues that seemed to correct themselves over the many disassembly and reassembly troubleshooting.


I finally got the drive together and tested it. Then tear it all back down looking for binds, then re-assemble. I probably did that half a dozen times until it came together and ran relatively smoothly.
I can understand why a lot of these stay on the shelves. They need a lot of work and patience.



Edited by - Glen Haasdyk on 04/15/2020 7:26:56 PM

Country: Canada | Posts: 2453 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 04/15/2020 :  8:18:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Glen

Clover House sells phosphor bronze in sheets: https://cloverhouse.com/Cart/product_info.php?cPath=46_48&products_id=13774

They also have phosphor bronze wire.

Tichy has phosphor bronze wire in many sizes.

Mike






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George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 04/15/2020 :  9:09:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Moving right along, Glen. I see the key to success is to have the patience to keep working with the running gear till it's right.

George



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desertdrover
Engineer



Posted - 04/16/2020 :  09:35:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very good Glen! Patience is the key with these Roundhouse/MDC shay's. From day one of the birth of these locomotives, if you wanted them to run right you had a lot of work ahead of you. Back in the day we called it fun. But, they were also the best locomotives going back then. Stay with it, you seem to be doing a great job with the axle re-work.


Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast
Post count: 5000 posts added to below count.

Country: USA | Posts: 16065 Go to Top of Page

Glen Haasdyk
Fireman



Posted - 04/16/2020 :  4:27:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you everyone.
I made a set of wipers this morning.
I managed to find what I think was a very small(1x1 1/2") sheet of phosphor-bronze.
I managed to get all four wipers out of it.




I scribed them and cut them out with some manicure scissors.




With that done I can attempt to solder the pickup and motor wires. I don't exactly remember but I think #26awg will be small and flexible enough.



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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 04/16/2020 :  4:57:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They should do the job, Glen.


Bruce

Country: USA | Posts: 32887 Go to Top of Page

desertdrover
Engineer



Posted - 04/16/2020 :  9:45:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeff Johnston (MDC Shay handbook) suggest using 30 gauge wire, but you should be fine with 26. You just don't want strain on the trucks turning. Cutting those small wipers must have been a task. Did you use hole punch or drill?


Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast
Post count: 5000 posts added to below count.

Country: USA | Posts: 16065 Go to Top of Page

Glen Haasdyk
Fireman



Posted - 04/17/2020 :  9:38:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks. It wasn't too difficult cutting the wipers. They took about an hour to fabricate. It would have taken longer if Philip hadn't given me the schematic. I used a #45 drill to cut the holes but I started with a #75 and worked my way up, otherwise I probably would have wrecked at least one of them. I certainly hope that the #26 wire will be flexible enough. I've seen other builds with what looks like longer.
I did the soldering today:



It didn't take long with a 40 watt iron. I just had to remember to make two in reverse of the other two so that the wire would point in the right direction.




While I was at it I soldered the wire leads to the motor as well. T
Before I get too far into the drive I figured I should look into mounting the couplers. MDC used the standard gauge frame on both the HO and HOn3 shays so to mount HOn3 couplers, some more work has to be done.



I assembled two Kadee HOn3 couplers. (that was fun)
and then I checked the coupler height:




I have a couple lengths of Blackstone HOn3 track and I mounted my Kadee height gauge to it. It looks like I'll have to file the cast-on standard gauge couple housing down and then mount a spacer block and the coupler to the pad. More later.



Edited by - Glen Haasdyk on 04/18/2020 12:42:22 AM

Country: Canada | Posts: 2453 Go to Top of Page
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