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Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 12/01/2019 :  4:50:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Iíve been contemplating two projects that will need some research and help from the membership here on the forum. Iíve done some scratch building before so no problem there. What Iím missing are the finer points of raw parts prep and doing research. Iíve learned a lot from the group on prep, painting, weathering and research to get me going. I have two ambitious projects in mind.

Number one is scratch building the rock crusher for the quarry part of the layout and building a roundhouse like the South River Model Works stone roundhouse. There is one on E-bay for $1350.00. A bit too rich for me.

Being the DYIíer that I am I want to make my own molds to cast the walls for the roundhouse. When I got back to looking at the rock crusher building I wondered if it would be feasible to use limestone block to build the bottom portion of the building instead of poured concrete. Iíve already designed and cut out parts to cast the foundation of the rock bins.

So I spent four hours last night searching You Tube to find out how one can make a mold to pour those stone blocks. After four hours all I learned was info I already knew. I was more interested stone sizes and how one would get the uneven surface of raw stone. So today I spent some time to see if I could find that on the net. Lots of info but nothing specific. It all related to modern day techniques. Not of how it was done back in the 30ís, and 40ís, the years Iím interested in modeling.

Iíll get into more detail in the next post to allow for editing and pictures.

More in a few.

Bernd

Country: USA | Posts: 3249

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 12/01/2019 :  5:42:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The rock crusher building and itís associated rock bunker article was in the Nov. 1957 Model Railroader. Iím only going to use the crusher building with some modification. Iím not going to have an arched passage through it and Iím going to make it longer by about ľ of itís total length.

Hereís a scanned picture of the prototype building.



Hereís the mockup I made of the crusher. It will be lengthened about as much as the ceiling tile sticking out under the right side.



The stone work Iíd like to copy is presented in the next four pictures. I found this place up in Clayton New York, about 12 miles south of our summer home in Alexandria Bay. These a Google pictures. I had taken some with my camera but canít find them right now, so these will have to do.





The corner stones are a smooth surface.



I got an idea of using soap stone to make the blocks. Soap stone can be worked with ordinary tools since itís a very soft rock. Pictures to come as I try out some ideas.

Bernd



Country: USA | Posts: 3249 Go to Top of Page

Terrell
Fireman

Posted - 12/01/2019 :  6:36:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting project.


Country: USA | Posts: 2049 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 12/01/2019 :  6:44:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bernd,

From the regularity of the blocks I would guess they are cast concrete, not stone. Or, is that what you meant by stone?

If you made one and made a rtv rubber mold you could cast innumerable identical blocks.

Mike



Country: USA | Posts: 5394 Go to Top of Page

Guff
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 12/01/2019 :  9:34:51 PM  Show Profile  Send Guff an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Neat project! I look forward to following along!


David Guffey

Country: USA | Posts: 1772 Go to Top of Page

sgtbob
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 12/02/2019 :  03:19:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks like a great project. Mike is right, they are cast stones. You could carve the master for
one stone or crinkle some aluminum foil to get the roughness, pour some plaster over it, and
cut one stone from that. Once you have that one stone (plus the smooth corner stone), then you
can make a rubber mold and cast as many as you need from plaster or resin.

Bob


http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30102
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51837

Country: USA | Posts: 3867 Go to Top of Page

Neil M
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 12/02/2019 :  05:11:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That looks super! The locos are excellent as well

Like Michael and Bob, those look like cinder block 'stones' rather than the real thing. There was a nice article (by Michael Tylick?) in the MRR magazine years ago about casting them. He pointed out that because each block is identical is has quite a different look to a stone wall. Are you modelling in O or HO?


Built a waterfront HO layout in Ireland http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22161 but now making a start in On30 in Australia http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=52273

Country: Australia | Posts: 2497 Go to Top of Page

BurleyJim
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 12/02/2019 :  07:56:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bernd,

How about using a piece of balsa wood in the CNC mill to make your pattern. cut the mortar lines a little deeper, and then press that facing down for the individual blocks. Make the mould from it. Do you think that rounded top edge of the blocks is from erosion? Maybe it's the lighting from the sun that makes it look like the smoothing is more pronounced on the upper part of the blocks. You'll figure it out, you always do.

Jim



Country: USA | Posts: 4706 Go to Top of Page

Carl B
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 12/02/2019 :  09:02:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll be following along too.


Country: USA | Posts: 3497 Go to Top of Page

Pennman
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 12/02/2019 :  09:13:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bernd,

By golly, I hope all of the seats aren't taken yet. I will be following along with you too.

Rich



Country: USA | Posts: 4173 Go to Top of Page

Bill Gill
Fireman



Posted - 12/02/2019 :  09:44:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bernd, an idea for a faster way to do the "stone" walls might be to try the same technique some guys use to model paving stone streets: Shape the ferrel of an old paint brush (after removing all the bristles) to the correct size and use it to stamp the motar lines between the stones on a wall section laid flat on your work space.
You could then scrape the faces of those corner stones flat and smooth. That last part could be a little tedious, but overall the method probably still would be faster than casting and laying all the stones individually.



Country: USA | Posts: 2697 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 12/02/2019 :  10:31:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
WOW, what an audience. Thanks guys. There are plenty of chairs to sit in. One thing I want you guys to do, and that is if I slack off for any length of time to give me a kick in the butt. I have a habit of getting enthused on a project and then lose interest as I go along.
Now letís see about those suggestions.

First Michael Hohn said
quote:
From the regularity of the blocks I would guess they are cast concrete, not stone. Or, is that what you meant by stone? If you made one and made a rtv rubber mold you could cast innumerable identical blocks.


Yes, you are right they are cast concrete. I am looking for that texture on the surface. I believe it will be had to create in HO scale. Iíve already played with a couple of pieces of plaster I had laying around. Cut it approximately to and HO scale block and then broke the end off. The outcome was nothing I was looking for. For the crusher building Iím going to go with limestone blocks. I just need to figure out a size.

BTW, I did finally find the pictures I took. It was only the front of the building and I now remember why I took them. It wasnít so much the texture or what they were made out of, but the size. I never did get to measure them. Anybody got any good guesses?







@stgbob

I agree they are cast. They all look alike. Funny thing about the crinkled aluminum foil, I thought of that also. I have an idea about how I might want to use that on the rock storage bunker casting. At present Iím leaning toward another idea on the crusher building. Iíll summit it up at the end of this thread.

@Neil

quote:
That looks super! The locos are excellent as well


Like Michael and Bob, those look like cinder block 'stones' rather than the real thing. There was a nice article (by Michael Tylick?) in the MRR magazine years ago about casting them. He pointed out that because each block is identical is has quite a different look to a stone wall. Are you modelling in O or HO?


I think I remember that article or one similar. Any idea about what year that article may have been? Iím in HO and the three different gauges, HO standard, HOn3 and HOn30

The locoís are both written up in threads on the forum. The green ones was a tribute build to ďGeezerĒ and the electrics were sort of an SBS thread.

@Jim

quote:
How about using a piece of balsa wood in the CNC mill to make your pattern. cut the mortar lines a little deeper, and then press that facing down for the individual blocks. Make the mould from it. Do you think that rounded top edge of the blocks is from erosion? Maybe it's the lighting from the sun that makes it look like the smoothing is more pronounced on the upper part of the blocks. You'll figure it out, you always do.


One thing with the mill is I havenít taken time to learn how to program it for 3D milling if youíre talking about the CNC Sherline mill. As I said above to Mike and Bob they are cast. The pattern looks to repetitive. Take a look at my three pictures again.

Karl and Rich, I have two seats reserved for you right down in front. <G>

Now hereís what I have in mind for the bottom half of the rock crusher building. Iím going to go with cut limestone blocks with smooth sides. Iíll leave the rough looking block when I eventually get around to doing the roundhouse. BTW hereís a pic of that roundhouse off the net.



As for how Iím going to make the blocks. When I started the quarry line I wanted to have a pit where blocks of limestone were being cut and loaded onto flat cars. My idea was to use soapstone. The material that was once used to make sinks back in the day and is still used in wood fired stoves today. The material is workable with plain steal tools. Itís soft, but wonít break very easily. Here is a pic of a piece being cut in a hand powered miter saw.



So I close with that picture for now. Iím going to see what can be done to make scale blocks for the crusher building.

Until next time.

Bernd



Country: USA | Posts: 3249 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 12/02/2019 :  10:34:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gill

Bernd, an idea for a faster way to do the "stone" walls might be to try the same technique some guys use to model paving stone streets: Shape the ferrel of an old paint brush (after removing all the bristles) to the correct size and use it to stamp the motar lines between the stones on a wall section laid flat on your work space.
You could then scrape the faces of those corner stones flat and smooth. That last part could be a little tedious, but overall the method probably still would be faster than casting and laying all the stones individually.



Hi Bill,

Yes, I've seem that technique being used. Not really a fan of that technique though. Thanks for mentioning it.

Bernd



Country: USA | Posts: 3249 Go to Top of Page

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 12/02/2019 :  10:35:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think anyone has done a model in soapstone before! This will be fun to watch!

dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

Country: USA | Posts: 7848 Go to Top of Page

Frank Palmer
Fireman



Posted - 12/02/2019 :  10:36:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit Frank Palmer's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Hum, I see many Egyptians at work cutting stone.


Frank

Country: USA | Posts: 5448 Go to Top of Page

desertdrover
Engineer



Posted - 12/02/2019 :  11:28:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bernd, those blocks look like what I did here, you will have to scroll down the page; http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38875&whichpage=2
How I make my blocks. I mix and pour Durhamís rock hard water putty into a mold that was made up of styrene. After the putty dries I remove them from the mold and score/cut around the strip to make the size of blocks, and then snap them off at the score lines, leaving a cut rock face look to them. At this point you can either stack and glue them into place, or make up and glue larger block wall sections if you are doing a large area. Some pictures below of the blocks in use.










Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast
Post count: 2000 posts added to below count.

Country: USA | Posts: 17394 Go to Top of Page
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