Railroad Line Forums - Need some 'technical' help with a loco.
Railroad Line Forums
Username:
Password:
Save Password


Register
Forgot Password?
  Home   Forums   Events Calendar   Sponsors   Support the RRLine   Guestbook   FAQ     Register
Active Topics | Active Polls | Resources | Members | Online Users | Live Chat | Avatar Legend | Search | Statistics
Photo Album | File Lister | File Library
[ Active Members: 1 | Anonymous Members: 0 | Guests: 55 ]  [ Total: 56 ]  [ Newest Member: Marty J ]
 All Forums
 Model Railroad Forums
 The On30 Line
 Need some 'technical' help with a loco.
Next Page
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Author Previous Topic: Peco Track Topic Next Topic: Mara Harbor a 0n30 show layout part 2
Page: of 2

brucet
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/02/2019 :  8:51:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK so I'm not the sharpest tool in the draw when it comes to locos!!!

I have a 'cheapie' 2-6-0 Bachmann Mogul. I installed a sound decoder in it. It ran very well, apart from some loping. Now after a few months of happy running I decided to paint it. Yeah yeah yeah. I know. When I reassembled it it still ran well until it hit the frogs on my ME turnouts. I have pulled the loco apart and checked all the turnout frogs. But look as I may I can't find a solution. As soon as the middle driver hits the frog the loco stops. Stalls/shorts as the sound quits and lights go out. This is at speed step 1. Maybe I'm expecting a bit much. But it never stalled before I painted it.
So what may have changed that I've over looked? No paint on wheels. My Peco points aren't an issue. Just the ME ones in combination with the 2-6-0. (BTW. My Shay does exactly the same thing). It seems as though the pickups aren't sufficient enough.

thanks
bruce

Country: Australia | Posts: 423

k9wrangler
Engineer



Posted - 02/02/2019 :  9:32:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sound decoders are infinitely more sensitive to track issues. For ME there is no question that I will by default put a capacitor of some sort on any sound decoder I install. I have nearly a dozen and wouldn’t consider not using one.

I’m sure the paint job is purely coincidental to your problem. Many here smarter than me may have better ideas.

My experience is with ho.


Karl Scribner
Sunfield Twp. Michigan
H.M.F.I.C
Kentucky Southern Railway
The Spartan Line

Edited by - k9wrangler on 02/02/2019 9:35:01 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 10071 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 02/02/2019 :  9:45:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bruce,

Have you powered the frogs on the ME turnouts? Are the frogs on the Peco turnouts powered?

Mike



Edited by - Michael Hohn on 02/02/2019 9:47:06 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 4674 Go to Top of Page

brucet
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/02/2019 :  10:45:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks.
First I have a capacitor installed so that shouldn't be an issue. And neither the ME or Pecos frogs are powered.
Keep in mind that this loco ran just fine before the paint job. But for the life of me I can't find what has changed.
It's as if the loco has twisted or something and is picking up a wheel while navigating the ME turnouts. As I said my Shay does exactly the same thing. If I tell the engineer to mash the throttle before the ME turnouts then all is fine. By mash I mean jump from speed step one to speed step two!

I'm not a loco type of modeler. These little niggles with locos make me think I'll buy ready to run DCC/Sound locos in the future. Fiddling with mechanisms just isn't my cup of tea.



bruce



Country: Australia | Posts: 423 Go to Top of Page

desertdrover
Engineer



Posted - 02/02/2019 :  11:18:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bruce, Like Karl I also believe that the paint job is purely coincidental, I'd start with checking your wheel gauge, the wheels may have been knocked out of gauge accidentally. Your Peco turnouts are more forgiving than your Micro Engineering Turnouts. If you have an NMRA standards gauge, check your ME turnouts at the frog area, "outside wheel guard and stock rail" and see if it is in gauge. If your wheels are even a slight out of gauge they will hang up in that area of your ME turnouts. Watch a locomotive cross that area, and see if it hangs up there. If so file a wider opening in the guard rail. Let me know your findings.




Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast

Country: USA | Posts: 17018 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 02/02/2019 :  11:56:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm with Louise check your wheel gauge of the engine. I would bet it's not the turnout as you haven't worked on them.

Bob


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4949 Go to Top of Page

brucet
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/03/2019 :  01:00:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks folks. The 'strange' thing is that the loco has no issues when traveling east in either forwards or backwards. But if I turn the loco it stalls in either direction.

I've check the wheel gauge and they are fine. But the ME turnouts are tight. So I may get the chainsaw out and give them a wee trim up!!!!

To tell the truth I've never been happy with my ME turnouts. Too tight and too fragile. I've been meaning to replace them with Peco ones but it's never as simple as it seems.

I'll keep cursing for a while yet!!

bruce



Country: Australia | Posts: 423 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 02/03/2019 :  09:39:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bruce,

Here’s my hypothesis. The engine stalls when turned to the west suggests to me that somehow the pickup on the one side of the loco was compromised, maybe only a little, but enough that the tightness (or whatever) of the ME turnouts in the frog area lift the drivers off the rail enough to break electrical contact. Perhaps not all the drivers on the side over the frog are picking up power.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Country: USA | Posts: 4674 Go to Top of Page

desertdrover
Engineer



Posted - 02/03/2019 :  10:08:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by brucet

Thanks folks. The 'strange' thing is that the loco has no issues when traveling east in either forwards or backwards. But if I turn the loco it stalls in either direction.

I've check the wheel gauge and they are fine. But the ME turnouts are tight. So I may get the chainsaw out and give them a wee trim up!!!!

To tell the truth I've never been happy with my ME turnouts. Too tight and too fragile. I've been meaning to replace them with Peco ones but it's never as simple as it seems.

I'll keep cursing for a while yet!!

bruce



After this second post from you, I'm even more convinced that if you file open that guard rail space between the stock rail and guard rail, that you'll be fine.



Louis
Pacific Northwest Logging in the East Coast

Country: USA | Posts: 17018 Go to Top of Page

brucet
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/03/2019 :  8:55:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks everyone.

I've done a number of tests.
First I ran every one of my locos every which way through the turnout I'm having issues with. (All 5 of them!!) My 2-6-0 stalls when facing one direction both forward and reverse. But not if I turn the loco. My Shay just refuses to go through 50% of the time regardless of direction etc. My Heisler works like a dream so no issue there. My little 4-4-0 works fine. Although it's never been a champ at slow speeds. And my custom made doodlebug using a HO Kato mech is the world champ at performance.

So conclusion. - The ME turnouts are toooooo sensitive for locos that have any sorts of issues. So I either replace the turnouts or the locos. (I have 6 ME turnouts and 5 Peco turnouts). Peco never have an issue. The ME turnouts all take it in turn at causing some sort of heartache. Yes the ME look just dandy. The Peco look 'ok' when painted and weathered. But because the Peco never play up I'm not looking to hard at them so I don't notice them!

Plan A is to install Soundtraxx CurrentKeepers in the problem locos. If that doesn't work, after a lot of cursing, I will replace the ME turnouts. Maybe I'll replace the layout. Hmm wonder if the wife would notice?

bruce



Country: Australia | Posts: 423 Go to Top of Page

BurleyJim
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 02/03/2019 :  9:43:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bruce,

Any possibility that a little paint migrated to a pickup contact on the inner side of one of the wheels? Probably no pickup on the center drivers of that 2-6-0. I'd look for some paint residue on the contacts.

Jim



Country: USA | Posts: 4056 Go to Top of Page

brucet
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/03/2019 :  10:06:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Jim. If it was a bit of stray paint then you would think it was be an issue elsewhere around the layout!

Besides, I have already checked that.

bruce



Country: Australia | Posts: 423 Go to Top of Page

kewlbrew
Crew Chief



Posted - 02/06/2019 :  12:00:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit kewlbrew's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Are you using driver pickup only? Or, are you using driver and tender pickup? I agree that the power pickup has been compromised somehow. The other aspect is the directionality of the issue. That points to the loco drivers not maintaining contact properly - either at the rail or with the pickups on the wheels (maybe both). With your shay, the pressure whisker contacts on the trucks are notorious for breaking contact as the loco wiggles as it moves or as the trucks adjust to track irregularities. Hardwiring the truck pickups will help correct that behavior. For the mogul, if it's driver only, consider adding tender pickup. I question the capacity of the capacitor you're using. You may want to consider something with more uF @25vdc.

-John



Country: USA | Posts: 543 Go to Top of Page

brucet
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/06/2019 :  12:57:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
John it's a driver only pickup mogul. The more I look at the turnouts and where the loco is stalling the more I think it has something to do with the frogs being to shallow. When the loco wheels goes through the frog the loco is trying to pick up other drivers. The same symptom as the shay!

Long term I think I'll be replacing the ME turnouts rather than modifying all my loco just to run through the ME turnouts.

bruce



Country: Australia | Posts: 423 Go to Top of Page

Reg Barron
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/06/2019 :  7:43:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would try powering the frogs of the ME turnouts before spending money to replace them. The Peco turnout frogs are already powered. I would also do a continuity test on all the wheels with pick ups.

Not all sound decoders come with caps that power both the motor and sound, some are sound only and thus won't help a loco go thru a dead frog.

Reg Barron



Country: USA | Posts: 207 Go to Top of Page

brucet
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/07/2019 :  11:09:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A bit more info. I removed/lifted the boiler off the mechanism. When it stalls I only have to touch the front driver very lightly. (I lightly push inward on the left side with a tooth pick). And I get contact and it's away again. This happens on turnouts and straight track. The turnouts are just exaggerating the issue.
So it's a contact issue with the front drivers. I can see the Soundtraxx decoder. The blue light goes off. Occasionally the red light will flicker but I put that down to arcing or track issues. It's very momentary.
I've checked the contacts and clearances. Seems to be no issue there.
Has anyone heard of shorting/loss of contact with thee locos? It also has a lope which may, or may not, be related.

This is a $100.00 loco and it's causing me no amount of heartache. It ran so fine until I stripped it and painted it. But for the life of me I can't track down what is causing it to stop.

Wife thinks I should fork out the money for decent locos in the first place. But being a natural scrooge I like to save money. Maybe not a good idea.

bruce




Country: Australia | Posts: 423 Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic: Peco Track Topic Next Topic: Mara Harbor a 0n30 show layout part 2  
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Next Page
Jump To:
Railroad Line Forums © 2000-19 Railroad Line Co. Go To Top Of Page
Steam was generated in 0.41 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000