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Author Previous Topic: Dbl-deck Layout in its Own Train Shed Topic Next Topic: Single slip, Double slip, or mysterious switch
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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/22/2018 :  09:43:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Full Size Paper Templates of Trackplan

To begin with I am not a computer geek who has ever learned how to manipulate computer track plan softwares. And to tell the truth I never thought it was an idea worthy of extensive study to learn just to singularly design my new layout. I really thought (hoped) that someone would come along and do that computer designing/visualizing for me,....someone who enjoyed doing that sort of thing.


Long story short I had to resort to scale drawings / sketches. These can be a little tricky to get 'exactly' to scale, particularly with the variety of turnout brands, and subtle variations in their exact profiles.



Paper templates of the turnouts was suggested (these were full size). I also had a good number of the actual turnouts themselves, and some fixed pieces of Atlas sectional track I could use to double check that I was getting a good close fit, and the proper angles.


I had a 4x8 sheet of plywood set up as a work table out in my carport. I thought why not lay some drawing paper out on the sheet of plywood and draw up some of the various areas of my trackplan. A contractor friend had an old roll of brown paper that is used to protect new flooring etc during building construction. And it happened to be 4 foot wide.



I now lay 4x8 foot pieces of that paper out on my BIG drawing table, and do an exact full size plans of my trackplan for various areas and corners of my layout. I plan on using these patterns to lay down the track on my double decks of the actual layout. Additionally I can simply roll these paper plans up and put them inside during windy or inclement weather,


I am actually having FUN creating these full size plans, and I am learning somethings about planning concentric curves, fitting in structures, tight tolerances etc, etc.
Brian

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deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 12/22/2018 :  10:04:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Printing 11x17 in black-and-white is pretty cheap at a copy center. Color is a lot more expensive. You might want to look into that.

dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/22/2018 :  10:26:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Initial Creations




The ones that follow were created up on that table, but subsequently laid out on the carport concrete so they could be joined together























Brian

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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/22/2018 :  10:31:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Retreat to Indoors

We then had some rather windy and cold days, so i cleared off a temp shelf (again 4x8 piece of plywood) I had put up in the rain shed. Then proceeded to lay out my staging tracks,...at least the ladder entrance end (bottom end coming up soon).












Brian

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BurleyJim
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 12/22/2018 :  11:00:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brian,

Now you need a drone to get the full aerial shot of that 'masterpiece'. Are you going to cut it into sections when you start laying out the actual trackwork? Looks like good approach as you see what fits and what doesn't. Keep up the good work!

Jim

Upon re-looking at some of the pictures, it appears you're building right on the plans. That's OK too. You might need to find one of those guys that can take off your T-shirt while he leaves your regular shirt on.



Edited by - BurleyJim on 12/22/2018 11:06:47 AM

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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/22/2018 :  12:13:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What you are likely referring to is my use of the actual track and turnouts over the sketches and paper templates? I'm doing that in some cases to make sure I have the paper templates in the correct orientations,....sort of a double check.

Brian

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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/24/2018 :  01:58:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Waterfront Scene, Brick Factory, Cement Silo


This mockup works on the lower right hand corner of the train shed (just to the right of the entrance way). My waterfront scene had already been chosen to be located here, and is designated by the big irregular shaped black marker pen lines on the right of this photo (and there is a small size print out of the scene taped in the middle of that blob)


To the left of that scene there is the brick factory with 2 tracks down either side, then the 4 kilns with their smoke stacks. The footprint for the factory is that of the Walther's Water Street Freight Terminal.

Viewed from the opposite end, you will see that I have managed to put a 'Medusa Cement' structure on its own siding in the very corner of the shed.

The two heavy black lines are the twin mainlines making the curve thru the corner of the main deck. They are 29" and 30" radius curves.

More difficult to see are the penciled in lines that define the tracks of the staging level that is just below this main deck. I have actually mapped out both the main deck tracks & the staging level tracks in this corner of the shed, .....all on one piece of paper. I will make additional tracings of these mainlines & staging tracks that will translate over to the other corner (left hand side) of the shed.
BTW, only the 'outer 3 of the staging tracks will be rigged to cross the bridge across the entrance way. The other 3 staging tracks end on either side of the layout.

What I found interesting when I was drawing these curves is I did not have to use the same common point of radius generation, and thus was able to utilize a few larger radius curves than originally contemplated, yet still have generous clearance between the tracks of the curves. No radius in this area is less than xxx inches.

The track on the very left of this photo feeds a long siding that eventually curves around into the peninsula, ...(and of course it feeds Madusa cement). The next two tracks in are the mainlines which will then start to rise towards the end of the shed to clear that siding track that ducks back under the mainlines to go into the peninsula area.

The Y switch over on the right might be changed to something else. Right now it serves to provide a coal car for the loading/unloading of the coal barge in the harbor. Its other leg goes down the one side of the brick factory, and will likely be sort of 'road flush' so trucks can drive over it.



The brick factory came along after the waterfront community had been in existence for awhile, and they bought up that big empty field to put their factory up. But both of these aged communities existed in somewhat the same time period.

Probably going to need a few more silos for raw materials to make those bricks, and some stacks of bricks outdoors? Suggestions anyone??


Brian

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tonphil1960
New Hire

Posted - 12/26/2018 :  07:02:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice, thats the way Ill be doing it too. I too have no interest in learning computer design !


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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/26/2018 :  08:08:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I mentioned before this full size dwg has BOTH the track plans for the main deck and the staging deck drawn on it ( I didn't feel that I needed two separate 'originals' for this corner).

Now I wish to make the separate copies I'd like to have to actually utilize to lay the track. I decided to use 'tracing paper' to make these copies. The first images shown here are tracings of the 2 mainline curves and the turnout leading off to that siding along the sidewall.

This dwg can then be flipped over to provide a pattern for the same curves that will appear on the opposite corner across the entrance. Over in that corner (down from the freight yard and behind the steel mill), there will be the same 2 mainline curves, with an identical 'siding' along the wall being the track that leads to the helix, and subsequently down to staging. Nice that these 2 sides became mirror images.


As mentioned before I was able to fit the Madusa cement structure into the very corner on the right hand side. I've been wondering what I might fit into that left hand corner? There are a few pencil scribbles on that tracing paper for one idea I might consider,...a diesel engine maintenance building (likely just cut off front half of the structure), and several tracks for parked diesels waiting for service. This corner might also have some mirrors behind it to make this building and the number of locos look more massive.

Prior to my full scale drawings project I likely would not have considered this scene as possible. That's part of the reason I find this exercise so much fun. I actually feel like I am advancing with my overall layout plan, rather than stalled in the scale dwg mode.









Next I will be making tracings of the underlying staging tracks in that corner, and I will be able to flip that dwg over and use it as a track laying pattern for the opposite side staging deck as well.


Brian

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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 12/26/2018 :  08:34:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Brian,

I like what you are doing. Your full-size plans could save you from costly errors down the track. Good job.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Edited by - Michael Hohn on 12/26/2018 09:01:08 AM

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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/26/2018 :  9:49:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Today I made the tracing of the staging tracks in that corner of the room to the right of the entrance to the shed. As mentioned before I now have 6 staging tracks down each side. When they arrive at the entrance to the shed I have decided to only have the 3 outer tracks pass over a bridge to make an entire loop of the room. The next 2 tracks inboard will make the turn at this end, but end just prior to the 36 wide entrance. The most inner track will end in a straight manner.






That staging yard tracing can be flipped over and used as a pattern for the other opposite corner on the left hand side.

A word about my bridge across the entrance might be in order here. The 'bridge' will be a rectangular framed structure that will be hinged around a bar across its upper edge that's mounted to the inner shed wall above the door. This rectangular frame will pivot about that bar such as to swing up towards the ceiling and get hooked there for clearing the doorway.

All three bridges, upper level, main level, and staging level will be built into this rectangular frame. Of course the upper 2 are 'fake bridges', of different style and set against their own individual backdrops. Its all mounted on one frame that pivots up to the ceiling with entering and leaving the train shed. Both of the upper bridges are double tracked for their 2 mainlines. The staging track bridge will be 3 tracks wide and camouflaged somehow


Brian

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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/28/2018 :  12:23:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Today I only had a very short time to play around with the full scale planning. I chose to look at the track plan of the lower left corner of the shed,....down from the freight yard, and containing the steel mill.



First I drew in the two concentric mainlines in pencil. They are slightly different than the right hand corner, so I couldn't use my mirror image tracing idea. They are the same 30 outer radius, 29 inner radius.

This first image would be as one was looking towards that lower corner from Balt city corner. The track along the edge (wall, right edge of photo) would be the track that is bringing the trains up from the helix/staging level. It eventually joins that outer mainline via a left hand med size Peco into a double curved Peco (30-60r) on the mainline (makes for pretty broad curves).

Next inboard are the 2 mainlines with a Shinohara double crossover included there. This double crossover will provide for reversing trains around on the layout's mainlines. It will also provide for getting big steam engines from the roundhouse area over to head up certain trains brought up topsides from the staging tracks by diesel workhorses. (possible that many of the steamers will NOT have to drag their trains up the helix from staging, but rather will be able to join their consist topsides).

There is another Peco double curve on the inner mainline that allows diesel engines that have refueled/serviced on those 2 inner freight yard tracks to enter back into the mainlines.


There may be a spur off of that helix service track to something in that coffin corner outside of the big curves. I threw in some sample trackage, .just in case?


Brian

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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/29/2018 :  10:32:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Left Hand Corner & New Steel Idea


I did a bit more planing of the track plan in that left hand corner and taped some paper templates in place of the actual turnouts originally set there to make the plan. Had to do a little modification to the original curved INNER mainline there, to give me the bigger clearance between the mainlines that are entering the big curve there . I wanted a larger separation there after they arrived there from their 2CL up along the left wall. I also needed to blend in the Peco double curve turnout I placed there.






Now over to the steel mill portion of that corner of the layout. I really don't know what I will finally do here, but here is my newest idea. I will NOT utilize the electric furnace, but basically stick with the blast furnace and rolling mill, and rearranged thusly.



Here is how I quickly laid out the track there.

My basic condensed version assumes the Rolling Mill assumes two roles,...accepts molten metal from the blast furnace, and turns it into basic shapes it ships out on the other end??


NOTE: I think that mirror I show at the end of the blast furnace should make that scene appear much deeper,...and hide the dble mainline behind it.??


Brian

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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 01/05/2019 :  10:52:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brick Factory Template problem

Ken Rice first brought up the problem with my paper template of my proposed brick factory building,.....


To the left of that scene there is the brick factory with 2 tracks down either side, then the 4 kilns with their smoke stacks. The footprint for the factory is that of the Walther's Water Street Freight Terminal.


https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/sites/model-railroad-hobbyist.com/files/users/railandsail/DSCF3317%2C%20overall%2C%20ps750.jpg]/img]



Ken Rich wrote:
Brian, that paper water street warehouse cutout you have look like there is negative clearance between it and the two tracks. It looks to me like you have the ends of the ties against the bricks of the office part of the building, leaving off the freight platforms on both sides, and with the roof overhang going over the track. The walthers pic seems to just show the roof over the freight platform that extends down the whole length of the warehouse and office? I must be missing something?

Brian responded:
I think you are correct Ken. I will have to look into this possible mistake of mine.
May just have to go down to only a single track on one side of the building,....bummer.

Vince added:
Track on one side, truck loading/unloading on the other side.



Use Only a Single Track Suggestion:
That may just be the solution. I had thought it it would be nice to have 2 so raw materials could easily reach storage tracks at rear of building,...but perhaps that is not to be.

As I said before I was unsure of the exact footprint of that building and its trackage access, and I have yet to locate my actual structure kit to look at the instructions. BUT I did manage to find a number of more helpful images via Bing search.








Convert Truck Loading Doors?
Perhaps I could still have tracks down both sides of the building,...just make those truck loading doors on the original model be box car loading doors. Then make the truck loading ramp across the back of the building full width for several trucks.

There is no way I could use those existing truck doors with the close proximity of the kilns.





Brian

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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 01/09/2019 :  10:16:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steel Mill Scene in a Corner

Steel Plate & Coil Production Flowchart

I found this chart interesting.



If you want to see a larger image, have a look here,...
http://www.steels-supplier.com/processing-technoloy/production-process/


Brian

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railandsail
Engine Wiper



Posted - 01/11/2019 :  11:24:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steel Mill in a Corner

I've come to the conclusion that I just can't hope to give the real steel industry ANY chance of a fair representation,...I just don't have the real estate on my small layout. So even while I have a number of the Walther's steel kits (already built and weathered by another modeler), I must make a selection of what I can use.

Here is portion of the layout we are talking about,...the freight yard scene down to the steel mill, etc




Naturally the iconic blast furnace must be included. I've located this along the inner edge of the shelf/deck just to the left of the entrance to the shed.



On the aisle side I've provided a little bit of a set back from the very edge by including 2 tracks for slag cars, bottle cars, etc. On the opposite side I've provided for two tracks to feed the blast furnace with its raw materials including coke, limestone, ore, scrape, etc. I could not get those 'feeding tracks' out of the other end of the blast furnace (my yard end), so I thought why not just load them up with a few representative loaded cars and make it look like they were fed in from the other end,...the mirrored end.


In both cases these tracks will appear to be more extensive and extend into the backdrop due to the mirror that I will place at the rear of the blast furnace. This mirror will not only make those tracks appear to be much more extensive, but will also make it appear that I have TWO blast furnace in a row. It will also conveniently hide the double mainline tracks behind it.






The double track bascule bridge just behind and off to one side across the entrance at this point should also contribute to the 'industrial image' of a steel mill along a waterway.



In the end we need some product out of the steel mill. The rolling mill will be my solution. We have lots of freight cars available that are carrying rolls of steel, steel pipe, steel plate, etc, etc. I'll utilize the Walthers kit as well, likely fashioned up something like this on that appeared on the York model rr club layout I visited long ago,....








Too bad I can't make the rolling mill longer, but I need to keep the building short, and not too big, so I can get those 5 five tracks (2 around the sides, 3 inner ones) on that end to neck down to 3 of the yard tracks.


One of those tracks also feeds a 'fabricator' of steel parts,...that is represented by the 'rail rebuilder kit' from Walthers with the addition of a outdoors overhead crane out front. This structure could alternately be that Vulcan manufacturing kit from Walthers. I just happen to run across this image and thought it added to the 'industrial image' I'm trying to establish there.












So there you have my idea for an abbreviated steel mill scene.



I also have a few 'steel mill working diesels' I could distribute around those tracks, along with the slag and bottle cars.


Brian

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