Railroad Line Forums - Modeling the White Deer & Loganton roster
Railroad Line Forums
Username:
Password:
Save Password


Register
Forgot Password?
  Home   Forums   Events Calendar   Sponsors   Support the RRLine   Guestbook   FAQ     Register
Active Topics | Active Polls | Resources | Members | Online Users | Live Chat | Avatar Legend | Search | Statistics
Photo Album | File Lister | File Library
[ Active Members: 3 | Anonymous Members: 1 | Guests: 95 ]  [ Total: 99 ]  [ Newest Member: Dizzy ]
 All Forums
 Model Railroad Forums
 Early Rail Forum
 Modeling the White Deer & Loganton roster
Next Page
 New Topic |   Reply to Topic | 
Author Previous Topic: NWSL Closing Topic Next Topic: 36 Cars
Page: of 5

RyanAK
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/20/2018 :  11:53:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, gang. I debated whether to put this topic here or over in HOn3, but I think this ties more closely to the TOC topics here in Early Rail.

Anyway... I'll be working out of town quite a bit for the next few months, so won't be able to work much on benchwork, or track, etc. But rolling stock modeling in portable. My grandfather used to build kits for my dad's HO layout when he was out of town in the 50s and 60s rather than sitting in a bar room, so I'm continuing a family tradition.

In 1910, this was the complete non-logging roster of the White Deer & Loganton Railway, a 3' narrow gauge line that existed in central Pennsylvania from 1907 to 1916.

(2) Class B Climax locomotives, 25- and 30-ton. Apparently equipped with higher geared trucks for better speed since they were not involved in the lumbering operations. They were also equipped with air brakes and could provide steam heat to the coach and combine.
(2) homebuilt open excursion/passenger cars
(1) combination car
(1) passenger car
(1) milk car
(4) gondolas
(2) box cars
(4) flat cars
(1) refrigerator car
(1) caboose

#8203;Pretty achievable to model the entire roster! The Class B Climaxes are going to be a challenge... I'm working through a lot of possibilities at the moment. Time will tell if I achieve success with this challenge. In the meantime, I'm looking for an appropriately sized HOn3 locomotive to stand in for WD&L No.1.

This thread will look at achieving a fairly accurate representation of the White Deer & Loganton rolling stock. It's been a long time since I've built any cars, and back then it was shake-the-box kits. I intend to start with some craftsman kits and then progress to scratch building. Maybe we'll 3D print something along the way. It should be fun. And I'll say now, I'd appreciate any help this great group can provide along the way. I don't have deep knowledge of rolling stock history, or modeling this era... so I'll be listing closely to whatever you have to say.

Here we go!

Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 113

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 12/20/2018 :  12:09:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looking at state RR Commissioner reports, there were A Lot of flatcars on 19th century RR rosters. Now some of them might have been 'flat/gondola' with removable sides/ends. A lot of RRs built up a flatcar inventory from initial construction.

dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

Country: USA | Posts: 7857 Go to Top of Page

RyanAK
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/20/2018 :  12:16:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here are some close crops of period photos of the White Deer & Loganton rolling stock. I've been studying them, trying to get a sense of the proportions, sizes, details, etc. Every time I look at one of these images, I see something new...

Here's a shot of WD&L No.1 switching at Loganton. I love this image. Except for the large structure in the distance that I have no information on. That continues to haunt me. But here we can see a size relationship between one of the box cars and a piece of passenger equipment. From trying to scale off of a few different photos, I think the box car is about 25'-28' long while the passenger car is 30'-32'. All cars seem to be about 8'-8'6" wide.


Here's another photo of a different coach and different (I believe) box car. Plus one of the 4 gondolas. A bit better detail in this photo.


Two photos that feature the caboose. Enough information is revealed to get a sense of the character of the car. Details are hard to pick out. Maybe 20'-25' long?



This little narrow gauge line that only ran a total of 24 miles even had its own milk car. How neat is that? And... an porch-end car to boot! I think this car is about 30'.



Dripping with character. I think this is going to be fun.



Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 113 Go to Top of Page

wstrouse
New Hire

Posted - 12/20/2018 :  1:23:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is going to be cool to follow. A few years ago I started building kits for a similar, but free lanced RR based on the Tuscarora Valley and the Newport and Sherman's Valley. Both 3' lines that ran west from the PRR along the Susquehanna.

You can do a lot of different things with Labelle's stock car kit. I did 3 flat cars, two gons, and a stock car. I only built two as intended, a box car, and a Trout Creek tank car.



Country: | Posts: 48 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 12/22/2018 :  08:29:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hereís your milk car on the Tuscarora Valley Railroad:



Do you know who built your railroadís rolling stock? You might be able to track down dimensions of similar cars on other railroads.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Country: USA | Posts: 5421 Go to Top of Page

RyanAK
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/22/2018 :  09:45:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thatís fantastic, Mike! Thank you! The WD&L was owned by John Duncan initially, then the Whitman & Steel operation. Both were lumber interests with multiple railroads operating before and after the existence of the WD&L. Rolling stock moved around from railroad to railroad, so tracing where the rolling stock came from is murky, but Iím making a little progress. The excursion cars were home built. I think the coaches came from a railroad in southeastern Pennsylvania. The flats and gons seem pretty typical. No idea on the history of the milk car, reefer, box cars or caboose. Iíd really like to get good models of the passenger equipment, the box cars, milk car and caboose. Or at least capture the character of these cars.

I enjoy the research into this stuff a lot. Fascinating. Iíll take a closer look at the Tuscarora Valleyís cars incase any other WD&L stock ended up there.


Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 113 Go to Top of Page

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 12/22/2018 :  10:06:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I bashed a milk car from some old MDC car parts, including a reefer for the body, shorty passenger car for the steps/undercarriage, and curved NESL roof. Provided here for some inspiration on how to get something quick until you build the Real McCoy.


dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

Country: USA | Posts: 7857 Go to Top of Page

RyanAK
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/22/2018 :  10:44:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That looks great, Dave. Lots of potential there!

Hereís a Shapeways 30í Milk Car.


The TVRR pic makes the car look longer than 30í... hmmm...


Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 113 Go to Top of Page

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 12/22/2018 :  5:19:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That Shapeways car looks very nice! Who's the designer?

Here's a trick for measuring cars: (1) the distance from the end of the car to the center of the bolster is about the same length as the truck wheelbase. (2) You can then use that to guesstimate the rest of the length of the car by counting "how many truck wheelbases' there are between the two bolsters.

dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

Country: USA | Posts: 7857 Go to Top of Page

RyanAK
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/22/2018 :  6:43:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Myner Models. Heís got some nifty narrow gauge stuff, both HOn3 and n30.

I like your method for estimating length. Often the trucks arenít visible or the car is at an angle. Been trying the same thing with the height of humans in the scene.

Fun stuff.


Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 113 Go to Top of Page

brian budeit
New Hire

Posted - 12/23/2018 :  11:50:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Download Attachment: class b's in operation 026.JPG
157.32 KB



Country: USA | Posts: 12 Go to Top of Page

brian budeit
New Hire

Posted - 12/23/2018 :  11:52:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry about the attachment, trying to post a picture of a 25 ton climax converted from an 18 ton engine. Really liking the posts, will keep trying.


Country: USA | Posts: 12 Go to Top of Page

RyanAK
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/24/2018 :  08:07:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That sounds neat, Brian! If you canít get it to work, you can email me and Iíll post it. Glad youíre enjoying the topic.

Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 113 Go to Top of Page

RyanAK
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/25/2018 :  09:44:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So... according to Taber, the milk car was purchased from the Eagles Mere Railroad (another favorite of mine) in 1906 and sold to the Tuscarora Valley in 1917. One or both enclosed passenger cars came from the Elk and Highland... which I cannot locate any information on as of yet. One of the box cars went to the Tuscarora Valley Coal Co. The WD&L Climaxes are easier to track... but throw in the White Deer Valley Railroad locomotives that were working the logging operations in the area and things get interesting. Fortunately, it doesnít seem like the logging-dedicated engines made it to Loganton.

Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 113 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 12/25/2018 :  11:15:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thatís all interesting research. It would be especially helpful if it led to more photos or dimensional data.

According to the TVRR book many of the boxcars were built by Billmeyer and Smalls Company.


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Country: USA | Posts: 5421 Go to Top of Page

RyanAK
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/25/2018 :  2:03:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like box cars, and thought the two owned but the WD&L would be a good place to start this journey. Here are the best two photos again for reference:





A lot {all?) of the rolling stock for this prototype is going to need to be scratchbuilt or kitbashed. Since I havenít ever scratch built a car, and itís been a couple decades since my last craftsman car built, I thought starting with a straight kit build would be a much needed refresher course. Iíve been searching kits that would be close to the WD&L cars, based on the limited information and photos available.

The best I found was the 28í N.Y.C.&H.R.R.R car made by Amesville Shops. Of course, this car is out of production, and an email to the owner didnít get a response. Proportions, hardware, etc. seem close to the WD&L cars. It is, however, a resin kit, and Iím not sure how successful I would be in modifying it.



B.T.S. has what look like excellent early craftsman car kits, and Iím drawn to them in a big way. However, none seem really close to the WD&L to be an eventual starting point for a bash. The PRR 28í XA is probably the best option from B.T.S., and is really a handsome looking car on its own. The U.S.M.R.R. cars are pretty darn neat, too. If I find eveidence the WD&L cars have exposed end beams, then the B.T.S. kits would become better starting points.




Iíve wanted to build a Bitter Creek car since I came across a few that were built up by members here. Mike, I think youíve done one or two, and I believe HŚkan has done a few. I love the way theyíre designed. They happen to have a, early, little Central Pacific car that seems to have good proportions. So I ordered a kit along with a set of HOn3 diamond arch bar 4í-6Ē trucks with 26Ē wheels to give things a go. The kit looks great, and the instructions are extremely clear. The car may be on the wide side at 8í6Ē, and the door hardware and grabs wonít be correct, but I think this little kit will teach me some things and get me started in the right direction. It looks like it should be fairly easy to modify some basic details, so might be a good starting point for the Ďrealí builds.




Any help or advice along the way will be much appreciated!


Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 113 Go to Top of Page
Page: of 5 Previous Topic: NWSL Closing Topic Next Topic: 36 Cars  
 New Topic |   Reply to Topic | 
Next Page
Jump To:
Railroad Line Forums © 2000-19 Railroad Line Co. Go To Top Of Page
Steam was generated in 0.85 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000