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Author Previous Topic: Projects in Progress on the Southern Central RR Topic Next Topic: forced perception question
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robchant
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 11/15/2018 :  3:03:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My only question is whether Loganton will meet your "45 minutes or more of prototypical operation" requirement stated in the G&Ds for the space. So far all I can see at this point is a run-around, a team-track, and maybe a spur to a sawmill. Do you feel that will provide you with enough operations in the space? (Of course you can always do as Trevor Marshall does and depict 3 days in a single op-session.)


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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/15/2018 :  4:11:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you were to model Lopez some day, the Lehigh Valley is able and willing to carry your lumber to the outside world.

Mike






_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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RyanAK
New Hire

Posted - 11/15/2018 :  6:42:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I spent close to 40 minutes writing down my thoughts on operations for Loganton only to have the forum gremlins send it into the ether.... I’m angry.

Anyway, I’ll try rewriting all that soon. In the meantime, Rob, thanks for the continued interest. I have a few ideas.

And Mike... I’ve admired your fleet of cars since I first discovered your modeling a few months ago. Your LVRR cars are one of the reasons I feel that I can model the turn of the century effectively. And I’m still looking at Lopez and Bernice. There are some great kits available for Lopez (LVRR depot, Jennings Bros. store, clothespin factory, McGee’s Hotel, etc.), and Jennings Bros. went to standard gauge in 1900. Challenges would be narrowing down what to model since the town had pretty extensive operations, and how to manage trains entering and exiting from both ends of the layout. But man, Lopez has a LOT going for it.

See www.micro-scale.com/catalog/jennings-lumber-co/ for some pretty neat kits for Lopez. The LVRR station is discontinued, but I’d hope to track one down if I ever model Lopez.

R


Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 40 Go to Top of Page

RyanAK
New Hire

Posted - 11/15/2018 :  10:06:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for sticking with me, everyone. I think we’re gonna enter the realm of “proto-lance” in the absence of any additional photos or other information on what was happening with the White Deer & Loganton at Loganton. (Not that I’m giving up!) So, let’s see what we can do with what we do know, what we can guess at, and what would be fun.

A few operational things that I’ve been thinking about....

Traverser - Over on my blog on Model Railroad Hobbyist, Prof Klyzlr suggested I take a look at “Rachel, Georgia” by Julian Andrews as posted on Carl Arendt’s site. This is the first time I’d seriously looked at a layout that included a traverser, and I really like what it would provided for operations at Loganton.

What I envision is a 3-track traverser on the 4’ drop leaf extension. If we assume 30’ cars, I think we can fit 5 or 6 cars and a Climax on a 30” traverser. (Anyone know the length of a 25-ton Class B Climax?) The longest consist I can document on the WD&L is 9 cars plus a locomotive. Most of the photographs I’ve collected show 3-5 car trains.

So with the traverser, the “big picture” operations could look something like this:

A full day of trains in Loganton - 1) The train from the previous night has overnighted in Loganton. Locomotive No. 1 begins on the engine service track (or maybe an engine shed...) and begins by building the early morning eastbound train for its trip to White Deer. This would include a coach or combine and a freight car or two, including the WD&L milk car. Off it goes, down the valley, and onto an empty traverser track. 2) The mid-morning train begins in White Deer and comes up the mountain to Sugar Valley, off the second track of the traverser, pulled by Locomotive No. 2. This local mixed train is a turn, so will pause at the depot for passengers to disembark, then switch Loganton. After switching the town, No. 2 will head to the service track for whatever minor maintenance or service it may need, and await its afternoon departure from Loganton. At the appropriate time, it gathers its train, stops at the depot to gather the passengers, then heads down the valley - back on the traverser. 3) The evening train, lead by either a duplicate Locomotive No.2 or a fictional No.3, comes up the mountain off of the third traverser track. It will have a coach or combine, the empty milk car (necessitates a duplicate milk car...), and a freight car or two. Drop passengers, spot cars and do any needed evening switching, and head to the service track (or shed...). 4) Reset the trains on the traverser (with whatever system I figure out for generating consists/switch list... but mostly because all the engines are now at the downhill side of the trains...), and we’re ready for tomorrow.

Switching Loganton - Here’s where we can make some guesses and generate some fun. I thought it would be good to start with the White Deer & Loganton’s rolling stock roster:

* (2) homebuilt open excursion/passenger cars
* (1) combination car
* (1) passenger car
* (1) milk car
* (4) gondolas 
* (2) box cars
* (2) flat cars
* (1) refrigerator car
* (1) caboose
* (2) additional flat cars were added in 1910

So we know what we have to work with as far as revenue cars. So what makes sense to put these cars to use in Loganton? Here’s my “possibles” list that I’m working to narrow down:

* Combination depot - passengers and small freight. I’d like to model this as close to the prototype as possible since we have great photos of the station, outhouse, and handcar shed. Combine and Coach
* General merchandise and LCL freight - inbound and outbound - team track - maybe with a ramp and a shack “office”. I don’t think Loganton would have had a separate freight house. Box Cars, Flats and Gons
* Finished lumber - l don’t know for sure where the mill in Loganton was located, and I don’t know if it was cutting finished lumber, mine props, kindling, or toothpicks. So I choose finished lumber (splinter merchant). We won’t model the mill because of the lack of space, just the loading of the lumber onto the rail cars. Stacks of finished lumber and a ramp, with the mill ‘implied’. No inbound logs, just outbound lumber. (We’ll assume the mill is being supplied by horse from small, local wood lots and whatever timberlands not bought up but the big lumber interests...) Any product going beyond the WD&L will need to be transferred to the Reading in White Deer. Flat Cars and Gons
* Milk - dairy was important enough that a small, primarily logging, narrow gauge railroad with a freight car roster totaling 12 cars had a dedicated milk car. All milk from Sugar Valley west of Loganton would need to come to Loganton to go out on the WD&L. That’s 10 more miles of valley to serve from Loganton. I’d guess there would be a small ramp, possibly covered. Milk Car
* Coal - I think it’s reasonable to assume that there was some retail coal sales in Loganton, though I don’t have a good thought on how to model this. Yet. Open to suggestions. We also know that the WD&L was delivering coal to the lime kiln at Eastville... which is to the east of Loganton. Depending on the arrangement of the track and schedule there, we could see coal gon traffic, either full or empty, generated by the kiln. Sorta ‘through traffic’, even though Loganton is the terminus. Gondolas
* Grain/flower/meal - there was a steam tractor and thresher working in Sugar Valley at the time and several mills, though I don’t believe there was a mill that was directly served by the WD&L. Any bulk grain or bagged product would need to get to the railroad and then be transferred to the Reading in White Deer if going beyond the WD&L. My guess is that loading at Loganton was accomplished at the team track. Box Cars
* Fertilizer - two different sources state that the WD&L hauled fertilizer to the farms of Sugar Valley, but I know absolutely nothing beyond that it occurred. Maybe a farm coop of some sort? Box, Flat, Gon?
* Mystery building - we know there was some sort of large building west of the depot... my thoughts are all over the place as to what this could be. Is it part of the saw mill? Is it an engine house or car shed? Is it a supply company? A creamery? A feed/seed co-op? It’s obviously a fairly large structure and it must be served by or be a part of the WD&L, since the actual town of Loganton is up on the ridge. I’m open to suggestions as to what we can model it as, because I want to include it. Somehow. What’s it look like to you guys?

A few other things to note - I don’t intend to turn the locomotives. Every photo I have of Loganton shows the engines with the smokey end pointing west, whether the train is east- or westbound. I do have one late photo at Carroll that shows the loco pointing east at the head of an eastbound train, so my guess is that either the wye was added late, or it was located between Loganton and Carroll.

I’d like to try to include a basic engine service track. Basic. Like, a place to dump ashes, water, and maybe coal/wood to top off. A small tool shack for a few odds and ends and the crew to stretch. I’d love an nifty little engine shed, but I think space is pretty limited already. And as was pointed out over on my MRH blog, it would be prototypical for the locomotive to overnight out in the weather. This could be any place convenient and could double as a lead, be on the runaround, etc. Or just be a spur 1-1/2 locomotive lengths.

Finally, I’m hoping that the overall layout will match up with the expansive image of the station with the town of Loganton on the ridge to the rear. I’m even considering implying the town itself with a few N scale structures peeking out between and above some trees as a forced perspective exercise. If that doesn’t work out, then we’ll just add Loganton to the backdrop.

So that’s what I’m working with. If you’ve read through all of that, well... you’re a good man, Charlie Brown. Open to thoughts and ideas!




Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Edited by - RyanAK on 11/15/2018 11:10:22 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 40 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/15/2018 :  11:00:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ryan,

Lance Mindhem and others make the point that if you run your locomotives at scale speed and allow time for crew members on the ground to do their jobs, your layout expands.

Your link to the Lopez kits has me wondering whether I should model a piece of rural Pennsylvania. I like the looks of those kits. I really need to finish Auburn NY first.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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David J Buchholz
Crew Chief

Posted - 11/15/2018 :  11:24:05 PM  Show Profile  Send David J Buchholz an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Proto- Lancing is a good way to put it. Modeling "What could have been" based on "what was" with some artistic license thrown in there. Personally I am not a stickler for the nit picking of stuff like "Tthat railroad never owned that type of engine" or the boxcar had this truck not that one. Who cares.

Imagination is what fuels things for me and many here, hence so many fictitious road names and settings. I hope you will not be stifled in your dreams and desire by worrying too much about specific prototype. Its your railroad, and you can do what you enjoy.

Have fun, break some rules.


Dave Buchholz


Home of the North Coast Railroad.

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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 11/15/2018 :  11:32:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RyanAK

I spent close to 40 minutes writing down my thoughts on operations for Loganton only to have the forum gremlins send it into the ether.... I’m angry.



Been there, done that. Now when I going to do a large post I type out the text on a "Word" format and then use copy and paste to move it to the posting form and add the pictures last.

Bob


It's only make-believe

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RyanAK
New Hire

Posted - 11/16/2018 :  12:09:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike - I really like a lot of the philosophy of what guys like Lance Mindheim and Trevor Marshall put forth. There are so many ways to make a small layout really fulfilling. We’ll see if we can make that happen with a neat narrow gauge layout of Loganton.

And let me tell ya, Sullivan County had a lot of interesting things happening for the Lehigh Valley at the turn of the century. Coal at Bernice, timber at Lopez and Ricketts, and interesting things in Dushore. Dushore has interesting topography.... the LVRR ran over an 80’ high trestle in town with the industries above ‘downtown’.

Here’s the team track in Dushore. Lots of LVRR reefers.


And a bad day for the LV in Dushore in 1905.


Fun, fun, fun. :)


Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 40 Go to Top of Page

robchant
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 11/17/2018 :  11:35:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow ... lots of progress since I last checked in. I really like how you broke down your vision of how you see the layout operating ... it all still sounds very plausible and feasible to me. Even the full roster of motive power and rolling stock seems very achievable. Great thread with lots a inspiration.


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RyanAK
New Hire

Posted - 11/17/2018 :  12:05:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here’s a quick go at a first sketch...



Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 40 Go to Top of Page

robchant
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 11/17/2018 :  12:22:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very nice concept drawing of the layout ... I like it!


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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 11/17/2018 :  1:33:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The drawing is a good start I think.

It's only make-believe

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RyanAK
New Hire

Posted - 11/17/2018 :  2:31:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, fellas. I’ve appreciated everyone’s input so far and encourage additional thoughts and suggestions. It’s been a fun challenge so far. Actually a series of challenges: Early era, narrow gauge, engines and rolling stock that will take some effort to gather, and a prototype that leaves some things to the imagination. Sorta compounding, but still achievable methinks. Fun. :)

R


Designing a 1905-ish Pennsylvania Short Line
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51030&whichpage=1

Country: USA | Posts: 40 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/17/2018 :  8:32:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I like what you’re thinking. Looks like a very doable plan.


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kebmo
Fireman



Posted - 11/19/2018 :  6:09:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit kebmo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
this is a great thread, thanks. very inspirational. please keep posting ideas. i'm gonna end up stealing one of 'em i suspect..

if you suck at playing the trumpet...that's probably why.

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