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 An Experiment in Wireless Charging
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Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 07/18/2018 :  5:11:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wvg_ca

the price on the charging coil isn't too bad .. 6.73 canadian in single quantities



Nope, doesn't sound bad, but still almost $2 more. So are you planning on running on batteries and R/C with wireless charging?

The more the merrier.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2603 Go to Top of Page

wvg_ca
New Hire

Posted - 07/18/2018 :  9:09:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well, it's in canadian dollar, from digikey canada....
future intent is wireless charging, probably in the new year, just move to charging bench for now


regards, Warren

Country: Canada | Posts: 20 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 07/19/2018 :  3:58:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The two coils I ordered from Digikey were delivered today. So down to the shop to see what I could smoke.

Here's what they look like.



Interesting thing about them is that they are mounted on a piece of metal. It was mentioned before that adding a metal core would increase the magnetic field. So I soldered both coils to the original boards I had ordered from the Robot Shop. Applied 12 volts. I kept a finger on both chips of the transmitter to check for heat and heat I got. The one chip got quite hot, but not before I had a chance to check the voltage. I got a good 10 volts at a distance of 3/8" to 1/2" distance. Not wanting to burn the chip set up I connected it to the 5 volt power supply. The chip heated up again. Ok, last test, try the original coil. I soldered the original coil back on and tried the 12 volt supply. The chip stayed cool and I got about 6 volts at a distance of about 1/2". Next is to set up some test fixtures for better determining max distance and voltage transfer.

The original transmitter with the original coil and the receiver with the Digikey receiver. The receiver is at the top of the picture and the transmitter at the bottom.



The original coil is on the transmitter and the Digikey coil is on the receiver. One minor problem. With the backing being metal I'm going to need to grind down the edges of the metal base to fit it inside an F7 unit.



Note I need to narrow the metal about one thickness of the shell wall. I think a grinding wheel in my Sherline lathe should take care if nicely.

It'll be a while before I'll get to post on this project. Have a couple of 1:1 projects coming up in the next couple of days. Your thoughts and comments are welcome.

Bernd



A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2603 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 07/19/2018 :  8:27:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Had some spare time tonight so I figured I try and get the wireless receiver installed in the F7. I found out that it wasn't to hard to use a large smoothing file to file down the edges of the metal. The metal is a ferrous compound similar to what is used in iron ferrite cores. I believe it's a compressed iron power. I fastened the coil and wires using a hot glue gun to the inside roof of the shell.



Now to build a transmitter support. That's next.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2603 Go to Top of Page

tloc
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/20/2018 :  06:29:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am confused. I am not a EE and do not understand the technical aspects of what is being done but Because you both have put this in plain clear English I can easily follow along.

My question is wouldn’t you be better off putting the coils in the ground instead of the locomotive? I thought without re-reading everything (but I will again) that was the plan? I envisioned running the locomotive over the coils and charging from there. If it is not too much trouble a quick sketch would really help me.

Also the fact you are using off the shelf and not expensive items leads me to believe this has a good future for the Dead Rail advocates out there.

Sorry for being a noob but I really like this idea!

TomO



Country: USA | Posts: 2089 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 07/20/2018 :  08:59:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tloc

My question is wouldn’t you be better off putting the coils in the ground instead of the locomotive?


There are two coils. One is the transmitter and one is the receiver. Think of it as listening to radio. There is a transmitter many miles away with an antennae and then your radio at home is the receiver. The radio antennae sends out the signal and you receive it at your radio at home. The wireless charging works the same way. The round coil with the circuit board attached is the transmitter and sends out magnetic pulses. The transmitter is placed at some location on the track or, in my case it will be above the engine. The engine carries the receiver that is capable of receiving the magnetic pulses. Those magnetic pulses are then turned into an electrical current used to charge the batteries on board. If you follow the link to the CLAG web site, http://www.clag.org.uk/battery-radio.html and scroll down to the Bachmann Class 24 section you get a better idea of how it's set up. I'm not using a between the track set up yet until I collect some data. I hope this has helped in understanding of what this project is all about.

quote:
Also the fact you are using off the shelf and not expensive items leads me to believe this has a good future for the Dead Rail advocates out there.


Rolling your own would be quite intensive work at this point. No sense in re-inventing the wheel. This is also the best way to learn how a system like this may work.

quote:
Sorry for being a noob but I really like this idea!


Don't be sorry. Not going to learn if you don't ask questions of something that is totally foreign to you.


More to come as the project continues.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2603 Go to Top of Page

tloc
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 07/20/2018 :  11:18:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bernd

Got it, I appreciate the time you put in to explain this. I knew something was missing. That website helps also. I will keep following.

TomO



Country: USA | Posts: 2089 Go to Top of Page

Norton
Engine Wiper

Posted - 07/20/2018 :  12:23:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bernd,

Still following you efforts here and it's interesting to see the steps you take. Now a question. Since you are mounting the receiver coil in the top of the shell, are you thinking of parking the loco under something (tunnel, coal tipple, passenger station?) where the transmitter coil will be to accomplish the charging? Don't know if you thought that far ahead but it came to me when I saw you mounting the coil in the top of the shell. Initially I was 'seeing' you parking the loco on a siding where it would sit and charge.


The V & T lives in my garage. Soon...

Norton

Country: USA | Posts: 175 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 07/20/2018 :  4:10:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Norton

Bernd,

Still following you efforts here and it's interesting to see the steps you take. Now a question. Since you are mounting the receiver coil in the top of the shell, are you thinking of parking the loco under something (tunnel, coal tipple, passenger station?) where the transmitter coil will be to accomplish the charging? Don't know if you thought that far ahead but it came to me when I saw you mounting the coil in the top of the shell. Initially I was 'seeing' you parking the loco on a siding where it would sit and charge.




The reason for mounting the receiver under the roof is just for an experiment. I want to see at what distances the charging circuit will put out the most transferred power. Much easier to work with lowering or raising the transmitter over the engine.

Mounting it on the bottom of the tank will present their own problems, one being the size of the receiver coil. Plus there's not much room for adjusting distance between the Tx and Rx (Tx =transmitter, Rx = receiver). Once I find an ideal condition I'll see what can be done with the receiver mounted under the engine. Also will be looking a smaller coils that will fit under the engine.

Bernd



A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2603 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 07/24/2018 :  4:09:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well I finally let the magic smoke out of the Tx. I added some longer wires to set up some testing. Connected the wires and "Holy Smoke Batman" the one chip let out all it's magic smoke. At first I thought I'd connected the wires wrong. A check showed no, positive to positive and negative to negative. Then what the heck. I did noticed a bead of solder had landed on the coil from shacking of excess solder. I wonder if the insulation got compromised thus making the coil get out of tune.

So to the Robot Shop to order a few sets this time. No Stock. Darn. So the project is on hold for now. Back to fine tuning the drive for the battery powered engine.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2603 Go to Top of Page

Norton
Engine Wiper

Posted - 07/25/2018 :  12:55:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well Bernd this makes me wonder if perhaps they are running the chips at close to their max current. If shorting a few turns from the coil lets out the smoke out of the chip driving it, then it would seem there isn't much current capacity left. Do you agree? Or do you think the solder blob did something else?

The V & T lives in my garage. Soon...

Norton

Country: USA | Posts: 175 Go to Top of Page

wvg_ca
New Hire

Posted - 07/25/2018 :  05:18:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if the receiving / specialy transmitting coil is designed to work at some multiple of the resonant frequency, then arbitralily adding wire may cause it to resonate
at a different frequency.. you may have to determine the ideal multiple lengths of wires to add to the transmit coils, just a thought


regards, Warren

Edited by - wvg_ca on 07/25/2018 05:23:03 AM

Country: Canada | Posts: 20 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 07/25/2018 :  09:45:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Norton

Well Bernd this makes me wonder if perhaps they are running the chips at close to their max current. If shorting a few turns from the coil lets out the smoke out of the chip driving it, then it would seem there isn't much current capacity left. Do you agree? Or do you think the solder blob did something else?



Running them at max current could be a problem. I know when I used the coils I bought to try out with the transmitter the one chip got hot at 12 volts. It also got hot at 6 volts. So using the coil it came with at 12 volts works fine. All I did was add some extra length of wire to the transmitter, nothing else changed. Same power supply, same 12 volts and it was properly connect to the plus and minus terminals. So the only conclusion I can draw is that that little blob of solder burned through the varnish insulation causing the coil to have a different resonate frequency, thus overloading the chip.

As soon as the Robot Shop gets more boards I'll be able to continue the project. For now I'm going to work on something else. Thanks for your thoughts.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2603 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 07/25/2018 :  09:51:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wvg_ca

if the receiving / specialy transmitting coil is designed to work at some multiple of the resonant frequency, then arbitralily adding wire may cause it to resonate
at a different frequency.. you may have to determine the ideal multiple lengths of wires to add to the transmit coils, just a thought



Yes you are correct about the resonate frequency. My guess is that the blob of solder burned through the varnish insulation causing a different length in wire, thus an over load on the output circuit.

I've looked into coil winding and getting the resonate frequency correct. Way more than I can absorb right now or care to. Thanks for the in put.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2603 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 07/30/2018 :  3:12:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Received the new boards today. Hooked up the Tx board and applied power. No smoke. Good. Did a quick experiment of using two receiver coils to see if it would increase the voltage on Rx. Nope, didn't work.

So while I was waiting for the new boards to arrive I did a bit more research (surfing the net). Nothing new turned up. Went back to reread the CLAG website to see if there was something I missed. I may have found an answer. I awaiting the arrival of another package. I'm also thinking of taking a new direction in this research. I wanted to recharge a 12 volt battery pack utilizing wireless charging without using a step up power board. I've changed my mind and am looking at something with a lower voltage. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I'll have some thing put together.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2603 Go to Top of Page
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