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Author Previous Topic: 23 x 13 Multi Deck Layout Plan Topic Next Topic: turnout radius
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ncng
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/07/2017 :  1:48:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit ncng's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I started out thinking I could simplify but now I am making it complicated again. In the area at the bottom right corner of the drawing (Nevada City area)I have 4 levels. I haven't figured out the actual elevations of each level yet and don't plan to until I decide if I want to go this way.

The bottom level (Level 0) is a balloon track intended to turn my passenger train(s). A lot of track is required for a minor benefit. Also, most of it will be hidden which is something I was trying to get away from. This utilizes an existing track on the current layout that ran from the bottom of my 5 turn helix over to the staging yard under Colfax.




The next level up (Level 1) is the East Staging Yard which is accessed by descending down from the mainline (Level 2).



Another level up (Level 2) is the mainline reverse loop (Cape Horn/American River Canyon Overlook).



The top level is Nevada City (Level 3). This is as it currently exists on the layout. Its elevation will have to be raised so that the revised mainline can go under the left end of the yard. On the current layout, the mainline is higher than Nevada City. I have also marked the location of the existing sawmill and Long Ravine Viaducts on the last image.



Time to get back to work.

David



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robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  07:08:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi David,

To me it seems as if the turn back loop in your latest version touches the outter wall (in red). Won't that create a problem with following a train to Nevada City?

Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Edited by - robchant on 02/08/2017 3:13:40 PM

Country: Canada | Posts: 644 Go to Top of Page

ncng
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  12:52:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit ncng's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, an operator will have go all the way around the layout to get from the Grass Valley area to Nevada City. It gains 30" of space on the interior of the layout which makes it worth having to walk around. Besides, some of my operators can use the exercise after eating the cookies and sodas that I provide at my operating sessions.

I am working on the track from Nevada City down the mountain toward Grass Valley. I have to descend approximately 4-5" to get to the same level as the mainline and then another 4-5" to get to the elevation of Grass Valley. For reference Colfax is at 0.0". To gain/lose that much elevation will require around 40 feet of track at a 2% grade plus transitions. Climbing or descending at a slow speed should provide time for an operator to go around the layout to or from Nevada City. Alternately, they can crawl under the layout as I plan to cantilever the hill over the existing aisle.

As soon as I figure out how to get down the hill, I will return to the other end of the layout to see what I want to do with the loop at that end. Reducing and replacing the elongated loop with the suggested simple loop may or may not gain enough real estate to be useful for something else.

Thanks for the questions. It helps me think of alternatives.

David



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robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  2:19:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi David,

Here's another idea for placement of the two SP staging areas with reverse loops:



Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Country: Canada | Posts: 644 Go to Top of Page

rca2
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  2:55:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rob, the longer mainline runs on the branch line are nice. Lots of potential for trains running through scenery.
I suspect David will like the scenic and operating potential.

David, I am jealous of the space you have to work with. Awesome. Most of us only see that much space in our dreams. Bob.


Modeling Arizona Eastern Railroad, Hayden Junction (1920), in On30

Edited by - rca2 on 02/08/2017 3:01:07 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 409 Go to Top of Page

robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  3:16:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bob,

After seeing the tour of the layout on the website, I was quite impressed with the work David has done. I can't wait to see where the version goes.

Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Country: Canada | Posts: 644 Go to Top of Page

ncng
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  5:56:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit ncng's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks guys for your input. You have to stop complementing my current layout or I will change my mind about changing it.

I like the thought of putting the Roseville balloon track under the sawmill and west end of the viaducts. I went and climbed under the layout to see if I have enough room. The only problem I see is with the loop of NCNG trackage that goes around the sawmill and under the viaducts. I plan to move Chicago Park and the Empire Mine so they aren't a problem. It scares me to think of moving the sawmill to work on installing a loop under it. The mill pond has about 5 quarts of epoxy resin plus all the plywood and Homasote. I would also have to replace damaged scenery. I will have to sketch it out to see if I can get the clearances I need. I will work on this next instead of going back to the south of Colfax loop. I will let you know.

The staging yard between Grass Valley and Nevada City isn't an option I will consider. If it is hidden, it would be very difficult to get to. If it is visible it wouldn't look very good scenically.

Here is my current thoughts for getting out of Nevada City. I basically piggy back on top of the track going down into staging until I am below the level of the Cape Horn mainline loop and then exit along the wall. The bad part about this approach is that about 75% of the track will be hidden. I think I can keep the track exposed from the time it leaves Nevada City until it is a little beyond the end of the peninsula. I only want the track visible until it is about 1" above the level of the mainline loop. It will reappear once it exits near the Nevada City turntable. After it turns the corner to parallel the wall, it will enter Town Talk tunnel which I want to model like the prototype.



Thanks again for the input.

David



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ncng
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  6:01:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit ncng's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks guys for your input. You have to stop complementing my current layout or I will change my mind about changing it.

I like the thought of putting the Roseville balloon track under the sawmill and west end of the viaducts. I went and climbed under the layout to see if I have enough room. The only problem I see is with the loop of NCNG trackage that goes around the sawmill and under the viaducts. I plan to move Chicago Park and the Empire Mine so they aren't a problem. It scares me to think of moving the sawmill to work on installing a loop under it. The mill pond has about 5 quarts of epoxy resin plus all the plywood and Homasote. I would also have to replace damaged scenery. I will have to sketch it out to see if I can get the clearances I need. I will work on this next instead of going back to the south of Colfax loop. I will let you know.

The staging yard between Grass Valley and Nevada City isn't an option I will consider. If it is hidden, it would be very difficult to get to. If it is visible it wouldn't look very good scenically.

Here is my current thoughts for getting out of Nevada City. I basically piggy back on top of the track going down into staging until I am below the level of the Cape Horn mainline loop and then exit along the wall. The bad part about this approach is that about 75% of the track will be hidden. I think I can keep the track exposed from the time it leaves Nevada City until it is a little beyond the end of the peninsula. I only want the track visible until it is about 1" above the level of the mainline loop. It will reappear once it exits near the Nevada City turntable. After it turns the corner to parallel the wall, it will enter Town Talk tunnel which I want to model like the prototype.



Thanks again for the input.

David



Country: | Posts: 251 Go to Top of Page

ncng
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  6:03:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit ncng's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks guys for your input. You have to stop complementing my current layout or I will change my mind about changing it.

I like the thought of putting the Roseville balloon track under the sawmill and west end of the viaducts. I went and climbed under the layout to see if I have enough room. The only problem I see is with the loop of NCNG trackage that goes around the sawmill and under the viaducts. I plan to move Chicago Park and the Empire Mine so they aren't a problem. It scares me to think of moving the sawmill to work on installing a loop under it. The mill pond has about 5 quarts of epoxy resin plus all the plywood and Homasote. I would also have to replace damaged scenery. I will have to sketch it out to see if I can get the clearances I need. I will work on this next instead of going back to the south of Colfax loop. I will let you know.

The staging yard between Grass Valley and Nevada City isn't an option I will consider. If it is hidden, it would be very difficult to get to. If it is visible it wouldn't look very good scenically.

Here is my current thoughts for getting out of Nevada City. I basically piggy back on top of the track going down into staging until I am below the level of the Cape Horn mainline loop and then exit along the wall. The bad part about this approach is that about 75% of the track will be hidden. I think I can keep the track exposed from the time it leaves Nevada City until it is a little beyond the end of the peninsula. I only want the track visible until it is about 1" above the level of the mainline loop. It will reappear once it exits near the Nevada City turntable. After it turns the corner to parallel the wall, it will enter Town Talk tunnel which I want to model like the prototype.



Thanks again for the input.

David



Country: | Posts: 251 Go to Top of Page

ncng
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  6:38:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit ncng's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The loop will fit under the mill but it will require substantial changes to the supporting structure. The layout is built with L-girders and 1 x 4" cross members. The Roseville Staging Yard and the track heading out of the staging yard towards the current helix are on the outside of the L-girders hanging down from the 1 x 4" cross members. The Roseville yard is at elevation -7.5" (Colfax is at 0.0") and where the track would have to turn to go under the sawmill the track elevation is -8.0". The NCNG loop that the track coming out of Roseville will have to go under is at elevation -6.5". To meet NMRA clearance of 3" requires a 4" difference (1" for 1/2" plywood and 1/2" Homasote) in elevations so the track coming out of Roseville will have to be at -10.5, 2.5" below where it is now. I had thought about dropping the elevation of Roseville anyway so that is probably doable. I will also have to notch the L-girder as it drops down to a lower level just before the viaducts. The base of the viaducts is down at about -10.0". I work on this tomorrow if I get any time.

David



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robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 02/09/2017 :  09:31:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi David,

I was thinking the staging yard between Grass Valley and Nevada City could be semi-hidden behind a mountain ridge that rises up between the NCNG mainline and the staging tracks. I thought it would be better than burying it under scenery, and would also be easier to access with the "open top" design.

Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Country: Canada | Posts: 644 Go to Top of Page

ncng
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/13/2017 :  6:48:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit ncng's Homepage  Reply with Quote

I tried several ways to get the balloon track under the sawmill without any luck. It would have turned my Roseville staging yard into a hump yard. I did shrink the loop coming out of Colfax and going down into Roseville staging. This should provide some additional space for the branchline. It reduces the length of one of the staging yard tracks to less than my desired minimum of 10'.

You can ignore where I temporarily stuck Grass Valley. It may or may not go there.



I won't have any time to work on this again until Thursday.

David



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ncng
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/26/2017 :  11:26:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit ncng's Homepage  Reply with Quote

After numerous days of trying every which way to orient and position the Empire Mine module into the available space, I think I have finally gotten it. Since my last post I have continued on from Chicago Park to Peardale and then started around Union Hill. The Empire Mine is now in a position where it can be accessed from both sides. This is mandatory since the Rowe Shaft headframe sits about 4" below track level and the main office.





The following link is to a PDF file that can be zoomed in on for better clarity. The Google Docs Viewer has limited zoom but you can download the file and view it with Adobe Acrobat which provides better zoom capabilities:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxlbXBpcml0YXxneDoyYjNhNmViZmZiNGNhMjcw

I haven't decided what to put on Union Hill. Our family had a place very near there. In the 1960's all that was there was a few houses, a closed down general store, a school, and a volunteer fire station. Most of the land was still part of the Empire Mine. I might put a small sawmill or a log reload (truck to train) to supply logs to the Brunswick Mill.

I now move on to getting trains into Grass Valley. This might take a while.

David



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robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 02/26/2017 :  1:21:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi David,

Glad to see you're making some headway with the plan, it looks good to me. However, I am still concerned about the excessive walk needed by a crew to get to Nevada City. Is there anyway to move the lobe 24" from the wall to gain more straight forward access? You seem to have some extra aisle space.

Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Country: Canada | Posts: 644 Go to Top of Page

ncng
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/26/2017 :  1:51:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit ncng's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Rob,

I haven't done Grass Valley yet which will eat up a lot of the aisle. I have put the existing Grass Valley diagram in as a place holder but it will be going away starting today. On leaving Grass Valley, the track will have to make a U-turn to go up the other side of the aisle, around the end of Cape Horn and then up to Nevada City. Due to elevation differences between the NCNG trackage and the SP mainline trackage, I need to allow space for a slope. I prefer that the slope not exceed about 45 degrees. I also need room for industries between Grass Valley and Nevada City. If you notice, the end of the Empire Mine module is set back about 42" from the mainline Cape Horn loop. This allows 12" for NCNG trackage and some small oil distributors that existed on the prototype on the climb up to Town Talk Tunnel.

Before I start cutting wood, I will run my final draft plan through my regular operations crew to see if they object to walking all the way around the room to get to Nevada City.

Thanks for your help.

David



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