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 1892 Standard Oil Empty Barrel Car
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Author Previous Topic: Offical Railway Equipment Register Measurments? Topic Next Topic: new (to me) line of HO and O scale figures
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BlairM
Section Hand

Posted - 09/19/2016 :  2:48:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have had this projects on my to do list for some time, it is a rack car for shipping empty barrels back to the refinery.

See the images below and my best guess at the drafting, what I can not figure out right now is if the car should have total height of 12'-9" or a height of 12'-9" for the "rack structure" alone.

White's book lists this car at 47'-4" in length, but no other details are listed in the book. The photo shows dimensions as a height of 12'-9" length of 47'4" and width of 9'-10".

I think the taller one is correct, but I am not certain.






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BlairM
Section Hand

Posted - 09/19/2016 :  2:50:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote



Pullman Car Photo 1890

Blair



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dave1905
Fireman



Posted - 09/19/2016 :  5:00:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit dave1905's Homepage  Reply with Quote
On my screen the wheelbase is 27mm and the car is 67mm tall, rail to top of the rack. Assuming the car's wheelbase is 5 ft, 67/27=2.48 x 5 ft = 12.4 ft tall. Assuming the car has 5' 6" wheel base 67/27 = 2.48 x 5.5 = 13.6.

Based on the stencil, its 12'9" ATR, and it has 5' wheelbase trucks.


Dave Husman

Iron Men and wooden cars
Visit my website : www.wnbranch.com

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deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 09/19/2016 :  5:26:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's the Knabb barrel car, very similar:

(I'm sure if you search you can find a larger photo.)

dave


Modeling 1890s (because the voices in my head told me to)

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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 09/19/2016 :  6:17:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Blair,

Equipment registers from the early 20th century tend to have more detail in regard to dimensions compared to earlier ones; they distinguish between internal and external dimensions etc etc. I don't know if Standard Oil cars are included but you might try looking at the 1904/5 register available on the Internet.

Mike


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Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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BlairM
Section Hand

Posted - 09/19/2016 :  6:21:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dave1905

Based on the stencil, its 12'9" ATR, and it has 5' wheelbase trucks.



Thanks Dave, do the stencil heights typically give the measurement above the top of the rail? To me that would be the most important number. On some cars the measurement is noted as Inside height.

In this case the "Height" should be height above rail, correct?

Thanks,

Blair



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BlairM
Section Hand

Posted - 09/19/2016 :  6:29:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by deemery

Here's the Knabb barrel car
dave



Thanks Dave, that is what actually started this whole thing for me. First I bought the Huff-n-Puff Barrel car kit and looked up to find a prototype, I realized the Knabb car was larger than the kit would allow and I started looking for a smaller car to build with the parts in the kit and that's when I found the Standard Oil Car.

I still plan on building the Knabb car, which I need to redraft, I think that one is between 50'-60'. I'm actually more excited about the Knabb car, but even less certain about dimensions, that's why I started with the Standard Oil.




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BlairM
Section Hand

Posted - 09/19/2016 :  6:56:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This was my best guess at the Knabb car which puts it around 57' long if I figure on 33" wheels, I wasn't able to get a good truck wheelbase dimension off the photo.



Ye-Olde-Huff-n-Puff Plan that started it all






Edited by - BlairM on 09/19/2016 7:01:04 PM

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BlairM
Section Hand

Posted - 09/19/2016 :  7:04:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Mike, do you know where I could find that listing? I've never looked it up online before.
thanks,
Blair



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quartergauger48
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 09/19/2016 :  9:26:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All height on any RR car is measured from the top of the rail. This is according to AAR and prior to, see below'..

American Engineer and Railroad Journal
https://books.google.com/books?id=nNBLAAAAYAAJ
1911 - #8206;Civil engineering
1910, reading as follows : "The maximum height of drawbars for freight cars measured perpendicularly from the level of top of rails to the centers of drawbars for ...





ted :<)

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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 09/19/2016 :  10:07:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Blair,
I search online to find them. "Official RailwayEquipment Registers" They were pretty uneven in detail from one railroad entry to the next, but after about 1900 many entries listed three heights, from rail to eaves, from rail to platform or running board, or overall.

Unfortunately I could not find Standard Oil entries in the 1904/5 orer's.

Mike






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Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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mabloodhound
Fireman



Posted - 09/20/2016 :  11:30:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I found this resource but it may take some time to drill down to the book/page you want.
http://tacnet.missouri.org/~mgood/trains/railroad-research-sources.html



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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/02/2019 :  12:26:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm going to resurrect this old thread because this is one of the cars that I want to build. Get information here. However, I believe that the Ye Olde Huff n Puff car is in error. It appears that the Knabb Barrel Car has the deck, and two others floors, located between the stays. When you look at the picture of the actual car, you can see that the barrels are not touching one another end to end. This means that there has to be a floor in-between them. There isn't enough hidden material in each row of barrel to indicate that the barrels are stacked on top of each other. Even looking at the 7/8 shot from the end, it appears that there are floors in between levels of barrels.

This car will definitely need to be scratch built which is going to be a lot of fun to do.

Anyone have any similar or opposing thoughts, I would like to hear.

Thanks,

Levi



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BlairM
Section Hand

Posted - 04/02/2019 :  5:26:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Levi,

Completely agreed, If you look at the last schematic I posted in 2016, I had determined that there must be floors for each level of barrels.
I was not able to confirm with any certainty the exact size of the car. Based on the archbar trucks under the Knabb car (and figuring the wheels to be 33" in diameter), I scaled to car to be 57 ft long, this is long for a wood car, but the barrels were unloaded, so they would not really weigh very much, but would really just take up a lot of space.

The only thing I will use from the old Huff and Puff kit will be the wood barrels. which presents another question, what size were the barrels in the photo and how will this compare to the Knabb photo barrel size.

Ultimately, I may scale the car based on the barrel size, I also purchased a big bag of Grandt line barrels to get another barrel and for another version of this car. Those barrels are 2 piece molded so assembling them will be a long project in itself.

I look forward to hearing some of your conclusions as you get started.

Blair



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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 04/02/2019 :  11:46:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Blair,

I started on some mathematical measurements based off the wheels, and I came up with a calculation that shows the car at 53.625 inches. I then measured, using the wheel calculation to measure the height of the car from the bottom of the car to the top and got a measurement of exactly 11 feet. Next, I did some research into what a 42 gallon oil barrel was and it was 23.5" at the widest point and 28" tall. There are 25 barrels per row in the car. They came out to 48.95 feet. Then, based on the wheel I calculated out what size wood was used in the vertical support framing and came up with the calculation of 5.5" which is 6 inches for wood. There are 8 vertical staffs, so that means a distance of 48" or 4 feet. 49 feet for the barrels and 4 feet for the vertical bracing means 53' feet overall.

I then pulled out barrels made by Campbell used in the Ye Olde Huff N Puff car and sure enough, they were 2 feet wide, and 3 feet tall. They are a little oversized for the era. Three stacked up would equal 9'. Looking at another picture of the car, there are no floors in the car. Barrels are stacked on top of one another.

I measured the roof and calculated based on the wheel size, and the roof is 11" in height. Now that means that the fascia board is probably a 1x10 or 1x12. I don't know if the car is open top or covered with tar paper. It does not appear to be sheathed. So it may be open.

I measured the floor and calculated based on the wheel size, and the floor is 13.75" in height. That means that the outer sills are 12" in height and the decking is 2x6 or 2x8, standard flat car decking.

Barrels in the car are 25 in a column, 4 rows deep, for a total of 300 barrels.

I will have more on this as I double check my figures and start drawing out the car.

If anyone has any other information they can share, please do. Accuracy is key to building the perfect car.

Thanks,

Levi






Edited by - SAFN SAAP on 04/02/2019 11:47:50 PM

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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 04/03/2019 :  10:04:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Levi,

Out of curiosity I did a little checking and you’re right, there are no floors. The photo is a little deceptive, but one can see the lower halves of barrels in the bottom layer to do some calculations.

Cyril Durrenberger did an article In Mainline Modeler on cooperage cars a decade ago that might be useful to you.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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