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Author Previous Topic: Sliding door reefers? Topic Next Topic: Doom!... Despair!... and Ag-o-ny!
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OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/23/2021 :  8:57:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Theme/Locale, and Era

I would revive my "Colorado & Pacific" idea, with modifications.

* Theme/Locale:

The C&P is full steam ahead building into the heart of the San Juan's to tap into the fledgling gold and silver business. The road is still in construction. The layout will reflect the C&P's switchback portion over a divide, for there's a tunnel being bored that's killing them. That so, the C&P built hastily constructed switchbacks over the top of the divide while the tunnel construction continues to plod on at a snail's pace. The switchbacks helps the westward-building rails reach towns and settlements (for income) as well as continually advancing the rails toward their destination points. There can at least be three towns on the layout:

- One on the east of the divide.

- One on the west side of the divide.

- One in the closet.

Main westbound traffic will be construction and building supplies that are moving into the mountains, along with needed commodities to sustain towns/industry. Westbound passenger travel will also be brisk as fortune seekers brave the rails of the C&P to reach the silver and gold regions. Eastbound traffic will be ore/etc. The road has close ties and a key connection with the Kansas Pacific at a mythical town (to be named) on the Front Range. From that point on the Front Range, the C&P has raced into the heart of the San Juan's, where the tunnel obstacle currently has the surveyed main line severed until the tunnel bore is completed. All town names, scenic features, etc, will be purely mythical with none intentionally based on actual locations.

Era:

Late 1870s or early 1880s. The C&P is the first standard gauge line to attempt penetrating the Rocky Mountains. It's been a struggle, but they're making progress.


Practicalities:

I'm not going to worry myself with being historically accurate for the region. Instead, I'm going to indulge into my theme (and locale) and model it the way I want to with the scenery and equipment I want to use. This layout attempt would be for creative fun, as well as enjoying small steam engines battling some mighty steep grades amid some rugged terrain.

The scenic efforts would (hopefully) reflect my fanciful interpretations of what a rugged Colorado railroad setting could look like. The switchbacks idea comes from NP's Stampede Pass switchbacks as their Stampede Tunnel was being built.

So, there you have. The possibility of a modest TOC19 layout has really kicked my imagination into high gear!

Andre



Edited by - OK Hogger on 02/23/2021 11:40:25 PM

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jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 02/24/2021 :  08:29:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My first reaction is that what I see as the operating interest of a switchback only requires building one side of the pass, but it's your railroad.

James

Country: USA | Posts: 6905 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/24/2021 :  09:51:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi jbvb:

Not fully understanding your point.

The "switchbacks over the divide while the tunnel is being bored" concept that I'm referencing went over the divide and connected with the main track on the other side:

* NP's "Stampede Pass" switchbacks over the tunnel construction 1886-87 or so.

* St. Louis & San Francisco's "Boston Mountain" divide that passed over their Boston Mountain Tunnel at Winslow, Ark in 1881-2. In this case of the Frisco, the rails were able to reach the port town of Van Buren, AR, so the flow of freight (commerce) could commence.

* I'm sure there are other examples I'm not aware of.

If the switchbacks don't go over the divide to connect with the main on the other side, there would be no point in switchbacks. That is, if it didn't go over the divide in order to continue construction of the line, the line would just wait until the tunnel was bored through and continue onward once rails were laid through the tunnel. Examples of that approach are numerous such as:

* The Colorado Midland during the boring of Hagerman Tunnel.

* The Denver South Park & Pacific during their boring of the Alpine Tunnel.

* Etc.

What am I not understanding about your post?

Andre



Edited by - OK Hogger on 02/24/2021 09:59:03 AM

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jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 02/24/2021 :  11:56:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's all a matter of what you want to model. My personal minimum would be enough to show:

1. Main line length train leaves low-level staging, runs to the bottom of the Giant's Ladder.
2. Train is divided into pieces for the climb, extra engines (and cabooses? I don't know how that was usually done) handle each piece.
3. Pieces go up and disappear into high-level staging. Maybe one drops off coal and supplies for Summit depot and possibly engine house.

Summit might have a yard big enough that two freights could meet there, in pieces. The bottom of the grade would probably have either a yard or a couple of sidings long enough for a main line freight.


James

Country: USA | Posts: 6905 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/24/2021 :  12:16:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Okay, now I get it. No tunnel dig in process, just a mainline switchback.

That scheme wouldn't be practical for my circumstances. There is a level continuous run provision already in place from previous plans for this bench work. The holes in the wall for the closet access that provides the connection for the continuous running option are at the same height on opposite walls. SO... the mainline will have to be at that height to enter/leave the closet, either hole. I intend to just run the continuous provision (that will pass through the "in process" tunnel) at that level height all the way around the room. The climb and theatrics will be on the switchback portions.

I have quite a track planning challenge before me with this "switchback over the tunnel divide" idea.

Speaking of the track planning:

The good news is that I think I'm heading in the right direction on paper. The bad news is that I will not have double switchbacks on both sides of the divide. Simply not enough room. Instead, it now it looks like only a single switchback to reach the summit, and a single switchback down the other side. However, with this approach, I may be able to fit in a short passing siding at the summit. A short pass track at the summit could offer some operational options that the double switchbacks idea couldn't. (That is IF I can fit in a short pass track at the summit!) Hey, one takes what they can!

The eventual track plan may not be what my over-active mind unrealistically "saw" in my mind's eye... but it will be a fun little layout to construct, view, and operate. However, most importantly, it would give me the ability to retain my dream of having an outlet for my TOC19 modeling, including many of the "Colorado feel" elements I want.

All fer now!

Andre



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OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/25/2021 :  7:55:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All:

Was sitting on the throne browsing my "D&RG: The Early Years" book and, lo and behold, you can add the AT&SF to the list of those lines that used switchbacks over a divide as their tunnel was being built! Yup, recorded in my D&RG book on page 55 we find:

"The first Santa Fe train entered the New Mexico Territory on December 12, 1878. The line over Raton used switchbacks until a new tunnel atop the pass could be completed."

I suspect this tactic was used in many places in mountainous and foreboding territory!

Now... where was I? Oh yeah... I need a track plan!!

Andre



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OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/25/2021 :  10:56:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The struggle is real...



Getting a line through tortuous mountains is tough!

Andre



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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 02/26/2021 :  07:53:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You’re getting serious now, Andre.


Country: USA | Posts: 7475 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/26/2021 :  09:12:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Correct you are, Mike. I'm getting very serious about this. (Just a day or two ago, I purchased a lot of 10 assorted Shinohara code 70 switches, if nothing else, for stock to keep my primary layout going over the coming years, but also to use as needed on my upcoming TOC19 Colorado & Pacific.)

The basic bench work is already in place, including Homasote. The only remaining hurdle to me fully committing to this idea is a track plan I'm pleased with. I have no doubt I can come up with something, but I want to spend enough time on the plan to optimize the design. No huge rush... I'm retired and have the rest of my life... but I want a track plan so I can commit to the idea and though I have the rest of my life... I would like to be able to start construction when the time is right.

Andre



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OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/26/2021 :  2:29:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And here's a batch of Shinohara code 70 switches I picked up the other day:





The #6 switches will be used for stock for my big layout, the #4's will be earmarked for the C&P.

AND... working on obtaining another batch of switches as we speak.



Andre



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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 02/26/2021 :  3:12:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You’re committed.


Country: USA | Posts: 7475 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/26/2021 :  3:59:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike:

Guilty. In fact, the wife has often made comment about me being committed.



Truly, I'm very excited at the prospect of having a layout dedicated exclusively to TOC19 at long last. It's been a dream for a long time. Pending a decent track plan, this time I won't chicken-out.

OH... and I've put in a bid (probably too much!) on this little basket case engine that's in pretty rough shape (some rust, tarnish, bad motor, scads n' oodles of little parts n' screws... and no instructions!), but I like it's basic lines and I think I can make something out of it.



Andre



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masonamerican
Fireman



Posted - 02/27/2021 :  02:42:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great to see also see you back on track Andre!
I like the idea of switchbacks, will give great action operating wise I think. I have previously poured over photos in Abdills books on the Stampede switchback loving the ruggedness of the locomotives. Baldwin 2-10-0s if I remember correctly.

The 2-8-0 you have picked up surely fits the bill of a switchback engine. Not sure but looks to be an old International import from the 50s. Old Betsy?

You are not the only one working on 2 wheelers, me and my son is renovating an 2001
Gilera motorcycle with a Morini engine.

Håkan



Country: Sweden | Posts: 1800 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/27/2021 :  5:16:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Hakan!

I’m very glad that it dawned on me that I can use this existing space for a small TOC19 layout.

The switchback idea is what helped me to see the space as being usable in view of the “Given” I have about helper grades. Helper grades are an absolute in regards to my desire for a TOC19 layout. No helper grade(s)? Not interested. Switchbacks gave me my helpers that are mandatory to me wanting a TOC19 layout.

There won’t be any engines anywhere near the size of the 2-10-0’s at Stampede Pass on my C&P! My target era is the early 1880s at the latest, so an MDC OT 2-8-0 would be the biggest power. However Moguls and 4-4-0’s will be the predominant power.

Yes, the little brass engine I’m bidding on is an old “Brass Betsy”. It looks small in the photos (desired), but it may be as big (or bigger?) than an OT 2-8-0.

Great that you are working on an older motorcycle with your son. I’ve been riding dirt bikes for over 50 years and still love it. My wife rides, too, so we get to enjoy being together out in the mountains on our motorcycles. It’s a great hobby interest.

So glad you dropped in on my thread! Do it more often!

Andre



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OK Hogger
Fireman

Posted - 02/27/2021 :  8:37:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess that’s what I get for opening my big mouth.

That little rusty-wheeled basket case engine sat there all week with no bids. So I placed a bid. Guess I shouldn’t have mentioned it here. Now there’s two others bidding it up. Didn’t think an old basket case such as that would be in much demand. Guess I was wrong.

What sort of prices have those old Betsy engines been selling at? Anyone know?

Andre



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