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Author Previous Topic: Projects in Progress on the Southern Central RR Topic Next Topic: New W&N
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OK Hogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/14/2019 :  12:06:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oooo.... you're a punny guy tonight, Mike!!



Flowing curves:

It's amazing how much easier it is to draw-in flowing curves, graceful S curves, and sweeping "eye candy" curves, on a paper track plan as opposed to doing same on the actual layout! Getting those curves right ends up with a lot of piddly-diddly consumed and much employing of the "Odegard Squint" to spot (and correct) any irregularities/etc. However, I just can't envision an Ozark layout without them.

As mentioned, I'm hoping to get the new portion of the layout powered tomorrow. In view of that, I'm getting pretty pumped about seeing how the trains will look (and perform) working on that grade... especially my TOC19 steam stuff.

All fer tonight.

Andre



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OK Hogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/14/2019 :  6:19:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Laid as much track as I could before exhausting my spike supply. At the last I was rationing my spikes by merely tacking some of the track down (enough to hold it in place but not completely secured) so I could reach a convenient place to drop feeders, which I managed. Once the spikes arrive, I will go back and finish spiking the tacked-down track. I just finished cleaning up after the track laying, and installing temporary safety pin switch throws.

What was accomplished:

All the industry tracks for Jack Fork are in place, and the main is past Rock Switch.

Next is string the power bus wires and power up the drop feeders. I plan to start wiring in the morning. Got some other diddy's to attend to for now.

Some pics of the Jack Fork area and the grade...



The two spurs in the above pic will likely become a wood yard.



As can be seen, I still need to fill the gaps at the rail joints. Also note that I'm in the process of making the ties in the siding and auxiliary tracks look less even/tidy than the main.

Still lots of piddly to do, but I hope to start running some trains sometime tomorrow or tomorrow night.

All fer now!

Andre



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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 06/14/2019 :  7:17:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jack Fork looks like it's going to be fun to run through and work in. How do you plan to handle the scenery here? 'm concerned that you don't have enough room between "high line" track and the wall. Unless you plan to plant a zillion skinny trees down a slope in front of the tracks.

Bob


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 5223 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/15/2019 :  12:50:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bob!

As to Jack Fork:

I hope it turns out to be fun to switch, even though it's rather straight-forward. All of the intermediate towns (Sawmill Spur, Jack Fork, and Piney Gap) between Ozarka (lower level, first town on the layout when headed north) and Mountain Springs (upper level, last town headed north) are rather simplistic, switching wise. However, Ozarka and Mountain Springs will require considerably more thought and planning of switching moves, for there will be more complexity. (This is intentional.)

Slope angle:

According to my handy-dandy slope measuring tool, a reasonable slope will be do-able and still have a bit of wiggle room for scenic support. I don't envision an "on layout" town at Jack Fork, instead, the "town" will be "aisle side" (not modeled) with only the dirt road from town crossing the tracks to access the depot and the spur tracks. The pair of spur tracks on the north end of Jack Fork will likely become a wood yard, and the long spur on the south end of Jack Fork a team track. That way, I won't have to fit in structures. I really want the mountain wall to look like a remote mountain climb (up Buck Mountain), thus the only structure envisioned on that entire wall is a small depot at Jack Fork.

Now, once you hit the summit of Buck Mountain at Piney Gap, there will be the small community of Piney Gap where will be a couple/three false front stores and a longish team track for off-layout industries to ship/receive.

The prototype town of Winslow, AR will be my inspiration for the town of Piney Gap. Here's a picture of Winslow to show what a plethora of ideas the town of Winslow affords:




In the above picture, I really like the way the small false front stores and the dirt road are hard fast against the tracks and the tie loading/etc is fit in as best it can be fitted in.

I will be using my old Frisco industry track schematics to give me ideas for names of shippers/receivers for the team tracks, though I have several that I've already concocted. A few:

North Arkansas Timber (Hardwood loading)
Hargar Tie Co. (Hargar Bolt and Stave in the 1880s)
Wyers Timber & Tie Co.
Newton* County Feed
Hickory Springs Furniture Co.

* Newton County: Those quite familiar with the Ozarks are aware that Newton County, AR, is one of the most rugged and remote of the counties in the Ozarks.

SO, there's definitely a vision and a plan... if'n I can pull it off!

All fer now.

Andre



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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 06/15/2019 :  11:23:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Andre,

Winslow looks like a perfect small town to model. It almost looks like a model railroad with the small buildings and narrow streets. Every structure looks kitbuilt if you decide to go that way.

Mike





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OK Hogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/15/2019 :  11:40:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A forum to talk about our layout stuff is a good thing. Thought exchanges with fellow modelers is a good thing. Case in point...

In the above discourse with Bob, as I typed out my thoughts something dawned on me: Crap. I didn't leave room for the depot.

If you'll note in the second picture above in this thread, the opposing spur switches off the siding were quite close to one another. That's where the depot was supposed to fit. Obviously, it wouldn't fit as laid, and there's no provision for it to be on the other side of the main. (Edge of the benchwork!)

Even though it was late at night (almost midnight) when that realization hit me, it bugged me to the point that I took the proposed depot out to the Hut to see how much room I would need to gain/adjust in order to put the depot where it was supposed to go.

Satisfied that it was easily do-able, I came back in and finished up my night and shuffled off to bed. First thing after breakfast this morning, it was out to the Hut to make the needed changes.

That was accomplished in fairly short order, with a change for the better: I substituted a #6R for the #4R that was there. Reason: The new switch location was going to be right in the middle of the cosmetic gentle curve. So, I segmented the ties supports under the #6R and gently curved it past the frog and now it flows nicely through that cosmetic curve. Mucho better.

Here's some pics below. Oh, and Bob: I used my handy-dandy slope indicator to give you an idea of the slope angle and space thereby.









Sharp eyes (or not so sharp) will note the name tags at the town/place locations. Those are in advance of my friends coming over to view the progress for July's get together.

Also, as you can see, now there' plenty of room for a small dirt road to cross the tracks to the left of the depot to access the team track (left) or the wood yard (right).

Life is good again.



Andre



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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 06/15/2019 :  4:45:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You shortened the station. I like it. I like Winslow too but, I love the Hay Grain, flour, feed store.

Bob


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 5223 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/15/2019 :  5:45:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Mike!

You slipped in a reply while I was typing my last post last night! Yes, Winslow does look like a model railroader built it. Seeing as I'll be doing a dual era, for any "signature" structure that's going to survive from the 1880s to the 1960s I'll need two of the structure. OR, if it doesn't still stand in the 1960s, one structure and portray a grown up vacant lot where it sat. I will either do a kit built from kits I have on hand, or create some cardboard ones using my photo library and photo software. I'm leaning toward the later, because it would be easier to have two structures for those deemed to have survived: The 1880s version and the 1960s version. However it shakes out, it's going to be fun.

Bob:

Yes, that station was shortened back in the 1980s when I was aiming toward doing an Ozark TOC19 layout. (I never did get track down on the two TOC19 layouts I started until this one. This time it looks like it's gonna' happen!)

That Hay, Grain, Flour feed store would be good candidate for dual era: As pictured, and for the 1960s, a surviving general store that's obviously showing its age.

The layout:

It's hot! All the new track is powered!

Well...

That is except for a short section in the Jack Fork pass track I forgot, and the Team Track at Jack Fork. Oops. I'll tend to that tomorrow afternoon after we get home from church/etc.

Steam engine performance...

One little Bachmann NT 4-4-0 pulled four cars (no caboose) up the grade. It started off doing better (five cars), until it got to what will be the hardest pull of the climb thus far, and that's a short section between Sawmill Spur and the south switch at Jack Fork. I'm glad that the grade isn't perfectly constant on the climb. I wanted some variation, and it has it. So, looks like I've found the layouts "tough cuss curve" area for the steam engines.

It takes quite a while to climb to the current end of track at 10-15 scale MPH. In addition to the single engine test train mentioned above, I also couldn't resist running a 7 car train (plus caboose) with a rear helper (which was also a Bachmann NT 4-4-0). They did fine. Might have handled another car or two. More fun things to play at once I get the portion of siding and team track spur powered at Jack Fork that I missed.

All fer now!

Off to eat some BBQ with the Mrs.!

Later!

Andre



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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 06/15/2019 :  6:33:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

The layout:

It's hot! All the new track is powered!



Steam engine performance...

One little Bachmann NT 4-4-0 pulled four cars (no caboose)....

I also couldn't resist running a 7 car train (plus caboose) with a rear helper (which was also a Bachmann NT 4-4-0). They did fine. Might have handled another car or two.
Andre



Wow! That's great to know. How heavy were the cars? Did you try a double header?

I'm taking a break from the Moguls made some progress that I'll share later.

If you cover it with trees (thin enough to see the train through) you can cheat on (make it steeper)the slippery slope. Like This;
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/35443

Are you going to do Videos?

Bob


It's only make-believe

Edited by - railman28 on 06/15/2019 6:47:38 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 5223 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/15/2019 :  9:28:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi 'ya Bob!

I'll know about the tonnage ratings once I dig out my MDC OT 2-8-0 to see how well it does. IF the little traction-tire-equipped 4-4-0's out perform the big 2-8-0... then I'll need to do something, for a smaller 4-4-0 outperforming a bulkier 2-8-0 just ain't right on many levels.

Haven't tried a double header yet, but the performance ought to be the same.

As for the slope: Yes, there will be trees and such on it... for it's the Ozarks and not rock-faced Colorado. Now, I do hope to intersperse some smaller rock outcroppings along the slopes to break up the monotony. I also intend to attempt modeling "plop rocks" that are seen in the Ozarks. ("Plop Rocks" - My term for the big, garage-sized boulders that look like they were just plopped here and there by God Himself.)

FWIW:

While out there running my little steam stuff... I found myself already looking forward to getting some scenery in when that time comes. I hope I can pull off the "Buck Hollow" scene, the white water creeks, and other things. That will an entirely new set of personal rewards to me, for my previous scenery has always been just underway with few "finished" scenes. (And none of them were "dramatic".)

All fer now. Think I'm going to go back out to the Hut and piddle with my steam stuff to see what else I can learn.

OH... and my spikes arrived this afternoon!

All fer now.

Andre



Edited by - OK Hogger on 06/15/2019 9:34:23 PM

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OK Hogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/15/2019 :  10:54:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob:

Okay, back from the Hut.

Double heading with B-mann NT 4-4-0's got 9 cars + a bobber caboose up the grade.

The stock MDC (RTR) OT 2-8-0 (with the ridiculously heavy stock tender behind it) managed 1 more car than a B-mann 4-4-0. I think that will be improved by one more car using one of my MDC OT 2-8-0's with their lightened tenders. (The tender weights are cut level with the tender floors to make room for the DCC/Sound stuff.)

Car weights:

I don't really know the weights of the cars. Some are lighter, some heavier, some roll better than others, etc. This is good, this is bad.

It's bad because there won't be consistency in the absolute "tonnage rating". In other words, you can't just say that an engine that pulled 5 cars up the grade can always pull any 5 of the cars up the grade. There may be a train that will allow 6 cars to make it... other trains that will be a struggle even if only 4 cars.

That's good in that there will be some instances you should have been able to handle the train, and can't. Thus, you've got to make decisions on how to get it to the summit. (Double it up? Send for a helper?)

What I will likely end up doing is set the tonnage rating per engine 1 less than it can barely make it with. That is, if the engine barely made it (lots of slippage w/slowing etc) up the grade with 5, then set that engine's tonnage rating at 4 cars. That way, you have a high probability that you can make it with 4. However, you can try to make it with 5... but you might lay down, and there you'll be. (See above!)

In all, it's going to reward me with exactly what I wanted: The mountain will be a huge thorn in the flesh for the Ozark & Southern that must be dealt with constantly. (There will be no actual tonnage issues with the diesels. Tonnage issues will have to be mandated by arbitrary numbers determined by me.)

My Ozark & Southern sounds like it's going to be fun!



All fer now.

Andre



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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 06/16/2019 :  12:21:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I too Think The Oz is going to be fun to run. I like that you're not doing the Rockies. They're gorgeous but they are soooo done. Your simpler scenery will be less distracting letting visitors and operators to just enjoy the trains. I find scenery fun to do. It's very forgiving. It's also very messy. I think you might have a little problem with that. There are a Zillion videos on building scenery on YouTube. Luke Towan and Ron's Trains n things are two of my favorites.
And I am not surprised by the lack of greater traction by the heavier MDC/Athern engines. I don't weigh my cars. I feel my flatcars aren't heavy enough but all the others track fine.

Keep up the good work but keep the diesels in track cleaning service.

Bob


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 5223 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/16/2019 :  01:17:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi again Bob!

Rockies:

Well, you're not the only one that's mentioned to me that the Rockies are well covered in model railroading. Of course, I can understand why, but had I gone through with trying to do Colorado... my layout would have merely been one among the hundreds (thousands?). As it is, very few model railroaders model the Ozarks. (And I know most of them!)

Building Scenery:

Yes, what little I've done with scenery indicates that it's a messy job... but somebody's gotta' do it!

Thanks for the tips on scenery videos.

MDC Tractive Effort:

I think the super-heavy tender is a detriment. I know what they were trying to accomplish: Better electrical contact. But I think making such a heavy turd of a tender was the wrong way to go. IF I absolutely feel that I must improve the TE of the MDC OT's... I've heard of "Bull Frog Snot" that's supposed to be good. Maybe apply BFS to one driver on one axle and see if that does the trick. If not, try doing both drivers on the same axle.

Car weights revisited:

Same here. The weights used are the ones supplied by the mfg'er. Like you, some of my flatcars are pretty light.

Diesels vs Steam:

LOL on the diesels for track cleaning service!

I'm confident there will be diesels in my future too, that's a given. What is unknown at this point is which era will get the most run time.

Anyway you slice it, diesels are much less "fiddle prone" than steam. With steam, the pilot trucks, pilot overhang, etc, cause them to be more finicky and piddly oriented. (Rerailing a 4-4-0 can be a pain, for example.) I am inclined to think diesels are more forgiving in regards to track geometry. To compound the issue, I have discovered that code 88 wheels make rolling stock much less forgiving to any track irregularities. One's track has to be nigh-perfect for code 88's. Further, I have already learned that the Bachmann boxcars with "snap in" trucks do not play well with 88 wheels. I will either have to plug the bolster, re-drill, and mount a conventional screw-mounted truck, or just replace the offending car's 88's with 110's: End of issue.

However, in spite of the challenges of modeling and running steam, I get really GOOD visual vibes watching those small steam-powered trains working their way around the layout. Those tiny, short cars, really flatter the 22" curves, the sweepers, and the S curves. They also make the layout look so much bigger than it really is. These (and more) are compelling reasons.

Video:

Well, my iPhone has that capability, but it's difficult to get smooth/steady pans, and especially when trying to "follow along". Then there's the megabyte issue (meg size of the video) and the YouTube hassles.

However, it could happen? We shall see!

All fer tonight. Gotta' get my butt off to bed. Big day tomorrow.

I'm hoping to tinker out in the Hut after we're home from church and chow time is over.

Later!

Andre



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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 06/16/2019 :  1:00:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On the 88's. Yes They look good. But (and it's a big one) commercial turnouts (the flange-ways) are designed for 110's. And, drivers are not available in 88.
What code is your rail?

Bob


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 5223 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/16/2019 :  2:26:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi 'ya Bob!

Finally home from church... done et... so let's see what'cha said befur I head out to the Hut...

88's are a mixed blessing. After my switching experiments with them on my TOC19 stuff (over a year ago), I made the decision to stay with 110's for the diesel stuff. I have a significant investment in 88's for the TOC19 stock... but I will be replacing the 88's with 110's on problem children that crop up.

As for the track on the Ozark layout: All code 70. Micro Engineering non-weathered flex, and Shinohara switches.

All fer now!

Andre



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