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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 11/27/2018 :  1:47:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Andre, I really enjoyed painting my clouds. While I found it difficult, I also found is deeply rewarding. Keep at is Amigo.

Bob


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4734 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/27/2018 :  2:52:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Rob!

So far, I recall the results of my backdrop painting (all themes, not just Colorado) turned out to be less than I hoped for.

There are times I enjoy it... but typically that is tempered somewhat by my disappointment (slight or otherwise) in the results.

I think it is going to be imperative to remind myself that I may need to accept that the fact that my hand-painted backdrops will likely NOT be able to come up to the standards I've seen, and been impressed with, on other modelers hand-painted backdrops.

It could be argued that such trepidation builds a huge case for the use of photo backdrops... but I just don't want to go there. (Besides, that has its own pitfalls.)

Anyway, I've spurred myself into action (SOME action, ANY action is better than remaining stalled it seems to me) and started experimenting with light/shadow to give some definition to the flat painted grey background mountains.

Here's where I'm at as of a few minutes ago:



Pausing and regrouping at the moment, but will soon head back out and continue. Still need more randomness in contour, then its time for some snow.

Already I have seen that I will want to pick out commercially available "stock" interior latex colors to use as the base color for:

* Distant mountains
* Intermediate mountains
* Foreground mountains
* Distant forestation
* Intermediate forestation

Using the above I can lighten (for highlights) and darken (for shadows) using acrylic tubes or white/grey (or blue) interior latex.

If/when the time comes to actually start on a backdrop, I think that will speed up the process a ton.

EDIT: By the way, you'll just have to overlook the foreground clouds I was working on being among the distant mountains. It IS a test shot, 'ya know.

All fer now.

Andre



Edited by - OK Hogger on 11/27/2018 2:54:01 PM

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Craig H
Fireman

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  09:33:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would check out U-Tube video's on painting backdrop's


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David J Buchholz
Crew Chief

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  09:41:35 AM  Show Profile  Send David J Buchholz an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Check out Youtube videos of cloud painting by Tim Gagnon. He makes it look so simple.


Home of the North Coast Railroad.

Country: | Posts: 659 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 11/28/2018 :  12:11:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Andre, I can identify with your felling. We want to paint photographs but yes, it ain't going to happen. As Craig and David suggested check out Youtube. Look for Chris Lyon on the CNLVN channel. There are others too. After reviewing a few I thing that you will conclude that your
painted backdrops will be just wonderful. But still, would a photo backdrop be better?I know it's a difficult decision. One I'm also trying to make.


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4734 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  2:28:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks all for your input, tips, and words of encouragement.

I did find a Tim Gagnon cloud video that could prove to be very helpful in the future, whether it's Colorado or not.

I did try to paint some snow and whitecaps onto the above... but again... I'm not liking what I'm seeing. Here's a pic:



Tempted to just paint over all of it with white, then blue, and start over.

Frankly, I'm at a very low point in my model railroad journey. Without trying, I've got myself into a situation where I really don't know what/where I need to invest my time in regards to long term enjoyment and that in view of the aging process that is sure to come.

It's not just painting Colorado, but it's also the tiny trains. I think this picture amply illustrates the issue:



As you can see, when one decides to do TOC19 in HO scale... you lose a lot of bulk. The tiny trains are a plus for a layout... not so much in view of aging (unsteady) hands.

In fact, I think I've been getting the cart before the horse. That is, I now think the first real questions I need to address is: Can tiny HO TOC19 be a part of my future? Or even HO at all?

If the answer to HO TOC19 is "no, I can't see fiddling with these tiny trains when I'm 75", then painting Colorado is moot.

Likewise the HO diesels. IF I can't see small HO diesels as the path for the long term... then the time is now to explore options.

Wow. The above is some heavy poop for this old modeler.

BUT, at least it gives me a direction: As of now I'm done with trying to paint.

Instead I'm going to invest my time to clean off the bench work on this small shelf layout here in my computer room (make no mistake, that goal is a sizable project). Upon this track-ready bench work I will use the sectional track and switches I have on hand to assemble a yard/spurs and actually SWITCH cars with my HO TOC19 stuff and then do likewise with the HO Diesel stuff I have. I can then make a comparison to see if there is a noticeable difference between handling the two in view of their size.

So, there you have it. I thought this out as I typed and I seem to see a direction now that may help me determine where to best invest my future time.

All fer now.

Andre




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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/28/2018 :  5:28:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Andre,

I think your mountains look better than most people could do. The snow looks like snow. If the peaks were a little less pointed what you did would look very much like a distant range of high mountains.

What you propose to do in setting up essentially a switching module makes a lot of sense.

Mike



Country: USA | Posts: 4144 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Engine Wiper

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  6:56:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Mike:

Thanks for the encouragement regarding my Colorado painting attempt. I think I can do better if Colorado is the direction I end up heading.

Yes, it does seem to make sense. At this point, I think my concern about HO scale is what I need to be seriously looking at, not trying to paint Colorado. Took me a week to figure that out, but I've got an understanding of the crux of the issue now.

My test track will be quite simplistic using uncut switches and sticks of flex (for longer tangents), and sectional track for curves and what have you. Mainly just a yard with a long lead.

Doing some switching with the TOC19 equipment, followed by the HO diesel era stuff, may not reveal anything to me, but I suspect it will.

My main focus now is to determine if HO is in my future, and if so, then which theme? The tiny trains (TOC19) or the small trains (HO diesels)?

If neither, then I will need to step back and ponder that implication a bit before the next move.

All fer now.

Andre



Country: | Posts: 433 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/07/2018 :  2:03:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Time for an update.

Since posting the above, I spent a goodly amount of time switching with my TOC19 equipment. I used Peco code 83 switches, Peco 83 straight flex sections, and Atlas 83 22" radius sectional track for the experimental yard w/switch lead. I purposely did NOT clean the wheels of ANY of the engines, nor did I clean the track. I wanted to see a "typical" scenario. ("Typical" = When you start getting the idea that your layout's track and engine's wheels need to be cleaned.)

Well, the above operational experiments didn't go as I'd hoped. The TOC19 engines were far more sensitive to contact issues, and the code 88 wheels were picky on the Atlas curves. After I spent meaningful time switching with the TOC19, I removed it off the rails, and into its place went the HO diesels. Same deal: NO wheel cleaning on any of the engines/rolling stock.

The diesels and diesel era rolling stock performed flawlessly on the same track my TOC19 struggled with. Placing HO diesel engines on the rail was a breeze compared to placing TOC19 engines. Same results for the 88 equipped cars vs the 110 equipped diesel era stuff.

SO, the above operational experiments didn't go as I'd hoped. BUT, it IS what I need to learn. I would NOT want a TOC19 layout that's basically a display to photograph my modeling. My #1 priority for any layout I've built since the mid-70's is OPERATION. I learned that (for me) trying to attend to the sensitivity issues (which would include trying to address contact issues with the engines), the contact issues on less than scrupulously clean track, along with the operational mis-queue's, have pretty much put an end to my desire to model TOC19 Colorado in HO scale. I know me: Operation using such finicky equipment would create more frustration for me than fun. (Changing to a more user friendly scale for TOC19 at this juncture in my life journey is not a practical option.)

SO, you probably already see where this is heading...

* I have decided that I will return to my HO diesels.

* At this point, I'm looking at modeling a theme that has worked great for me in the past.

* I will use V scale (computer simulation) to indulge in my TOC19 fetish. V scale seems to be best for me in that regard.

What this means to my TOC19 collection:

I will likely start taking inventory and begin the long process of selling it. I have amassed a fair amount of pieces, and a notable portion of the train set cars are already converted to appear more "scale" and are in fact ready for paint and decals.

So there you have it. I will still be hanging out here (especially when I'm in a TOC19 V scale mode and making progress on some TOC19 route project therein), but obviously, I won't be shoving diesels down your throats.

For now, I'm taking inventory of my TOC19 stuff, as well as the diesel stuff. I have a significant amount of diesels and cars on hand, so the transition will not be as painful financially as it could have been. In addition, I've re-purposed my work bench (removed the TOC19 projects and cleaned/reorganized it) in preparation for diesel era modeling. Using my re-purposed workbench, I have already assembled the few diesel era rolling stock kits I had on hand, and have started reorganizing my parts drawers from steam era parts to diesel era parts. I also have spent some time designing a "Version 1" track plan for the lower level of the theme I'm considering modeling.

So, now you're caught up on what's going on in my continuing life journey with model trains! (Said life journey with model trains reads like a script of a soap opera, actually!)

All fer now.

Andre



Country: | Posts: 433 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 12/09/2018 :  3:00:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To each, their own... The lack of "bulk" is one of the thing I like about Early rail, but like I said be true to yourself. Diesel models have better weight distribution that aids their ability to maintain electrical contact but I do believe that with a little engineering and TLC Early rail models can provide fine service.

Bob


It's only make-believe

Country: USA | Posts: 4734 Go to Top of Page

masonamerican
Fireman



Posted - 12/10/2018 :  1:50:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been away for awhile from the forum and this is what I found. Your are not abandoning real life TOC19 modeling?
On electrical pickup wait until the new Athearn 2-8-0 comes out with Soundraxx sound. I have one of the earlier and I haven't cleaned the wheels on it yet. Runs fantastic.
And the Bachmann with some additional tender pickups will perform great too. I have a CMX track cleaning car which is the best investment I have ever made. Run it a couple of times over the mainline and the rails are clean as they can get. But I understand your point. The diesel equipment is more reliable with the added weight. Not so cute though

Love the backdrop. You have real talent Andre.

Håkan



Country: Sweden | Posts: 1675 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 12/10/2018 :  2:26:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Andre,

My experience with the Athearn 2-8-0 is the same as Håkan‘s.

I understand how you feel but you can’t get away with not cleaning track forever. Even diesels don’t run well. Eventually.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Country: USA | Posts: 4144 Go to Top of Page

OK Hogger
Engine Wiper

Posted - 12/14/2018 :  1:30:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rob, Håkan, Mike:

It's not a decision I've taken lightly. The inward desire to attempt TOC19 modeling via a tactile medium has been resident in me for a long time.

Unfortunately, as the time neared the pivotal "do or do not, there is no try" stage (i.e. cutting lumber and committing time/effort/$$/space to the attempt)... the nagging concerns that I have had concerning tackling such a project HAD to be addressed to see if this was really was something that I could do for the bulk of my productive modeling years. (Note: There were others nagging doubts that I've not mentioned.)

A TOC19 layout executed to at least be "close 'enuf" to my mental envisioning would no doubt have been rewarding. It was the "getting there" that was in question.

I wanted a surreal version (MY version), of Colorado to take shape. I wanted peaks there were too pointed (but no repetitive or symentrical!), slopes that were too steep, more lots of snow/whatever. For that reason, I simply would not be able to accept using photo backdrops. I was not wanting "realism" so much as I was "effect" and "theatrics".

What I mentally envisioned for my backdrops could be representative of this type of impressionistic painting:



And this...



IMHO, even at the best level I could HOPE to achieve, I would not be able to come CLOSE ENOUGH to the above examples for my efforts to be personally satisfying. (THAT is paramount to one's continuation with a theme.)

Perhaps the above was the biggest nail in the coffin, but the operating characteristics of the tiny equipment was also a significant factor.

There are other factors that led to my decision, but I won't address them. These above two were the key obstacles. For sure, it would suck BIG TIME to be well into a TOC19 layout and simply NOT LIKE the results I was getting, and unable (lacking the skills) to fix it.

So, I faced a decision point, and I made the decision to model via an approach that I KNOW I can achieve satisfying results therein with however many modeling years I have left in me. (For I achieved satisfaction levels via same in the past.)

Be warned, though: I continue to haunt you guys here and oogle and ah your work... so you won't be rid of me!

All fer now!

Andre



Edited by - OK Hogger on 12/14/2018 1:42:08 PM

Country: | Posts: 433 Go to Top of Page

masonamerican
Fireman



Posted - 12/16/2018 :  07:00:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Andre,
I understand your decision. Sometimes one has to make difficult decisions not to later on end up at a dead end. I must admit that I get tired of my layout and the concept at times. Mostly now because I don’t have the time to devote to it I dream of other layouts. One of them is a HOn30 portable narrow gauge layout where the base and inspiration is the Minitrains Forney. And Maine. You know where this is leading….

The vision of Colorado you mention sounds like my cup of tea. BUT can’t you still visualize that? I’m thinking of a steam-diesel transition layout set in mountainous Colorado terrain. Then you can have the dependability of the large steam together with diesels. And mountains. G&D was such a layout. Just a thought.

Håkan



Country: Sweden | Posts: 1675 Go to Top of Page
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