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Author Previous Topic: ďThe  Original Kittom Lumber Co. Topic Next Topic: The Depot (at Carendt)
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kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/14/2016 :  8:40:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well with the assistance of forum member Rob Chant I've been able to produce a first draft of the plan. There will be several iterations before settling on a final workable version.



The main features:

  • Four tracks in and out of the module, each leading to a removable cassette

  • I may have the front left track be an abandoned stretch, partially left in place to service the industry.

  • The passing loop is the mainline (the Soo Branch), all other tracks are part of the now deceased traction company.

  • The station had passenger platforms for both lines but they are now only used for freight.

  • The backdrop on the left will have brick town buildings.

  • There are two industries but I'm not yet sure what they will be.

  • There is a scenic cut-out well at the front right. I want to retain this feature across this and all other modules.


I'll post more thoughts as we move through this process. Thanks to Rob Chant for all his help.


http://thedepotonline.com/

Edited by - kumard on 01/14/2016 9:14:36 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 361 Go to Top of Page

Grabnet
Engine Wiper



Posted - 01/15/2016 :  06:23:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are off to a very good start on another nice project. Doc Tom


Country: USA | Posts: 396 Go to Top of Page

kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/15/2016 :  10:36:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Doc.

The next step would be to take this plan and start adding in what I call 'Ricean' curves (Iain Rice's 'no straights' rule). The track plan needs to flow with a kind of swaying motion. I'm not yet sure how to do that on the diagram but I may draw out the whole plan full size on paper this weekend and add the curves and easements at that point.


http://thedepotonline.com/

Edited by - kumard on 01/15/2016 10:42:34 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 361 Go to Top of Page

Frank Palmer
Fireman



Posted - 01/15/2016 :  10:51:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit Frank Palmer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Aesthetic foundation, Iím feeling a chill just looking at the photo, that sure is an inspirational shot.

You sure can provide a ton of operation into 72 measly inches.



Country: USA | Posts: 3774 Go to Top of Page

rca2
Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/15/2016 :  3:14:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kumard

Thanks Doc.

The next step would be to take this plan and start adding in what I call 'Ricean' curves (Iain Rice's 'no straights' rule). The track plan needs to flow with a kind of swaying motion. I'm not yet sure how to do that on the diagram but I may draw out the whole plan full size on paper this weekend and add the curves and easements at that point.



I see your theme reflected in the draft track plan. So many interesting features: the closed tower, the twin diamond crossings, the passenger platforms, the passing siding and main running diagonal toward the edge. I can't wait to see where you go with it.

I have one comment regarding adding the curves. You could contrast the former traction tracks (rusted light weight rail, tighter curves, catenary poles, overgrown right of way) with the Soo tracks (straighter, ballasted, heavier rail, less apparent rust). If you use commercial turnouts, that is going to limit what you can do as far as introducing curves.


Modeling Arizona Eastern Railroad, Hayden Junction (1920), in On30

Country: USA | Posts: 409 Go to Top of Page

mark_dalrymple
Crew Chief

Posted - 01/15/2016 :  3:15:25 PM  Show Profile  Send mark_dalrymple an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Looking good, Kumard.

You might find Iain Rices 'Hotdog' plan useful. It was in a MRR mag a ways back. Another thing to consider might be rotating the track clockwise as much as possible on a pivot point just to the left of the station. This would create slightly wedged shaped buildings against the backdrop that I find always helps to hide the straight lines and add depth to the layout. You might also be able to add a mirror to the road at the left end to help trick the eye. Industry no.1 should help to hide it. An interesting plan.

Cheers, Mark.



Country: New Zealand | Posts: 859 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 01/15/2016 :  5:59:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Kumar,

That's a nice plan. I looked at it earlier today and my reaction is much in line with Bob's regarding broad gentle curves for the mainline. I assume you will build your own turnouts, which gives you more flexibility. Judging from your Depot module you are good at getting visually-appealing yet prototypical-looking curves in a short space. Are you considering having the tracks exiting the module at other than ninety degrees?

I don't hand lay track myself, but I do find it very helpful to use the Micro Engineering track so that it stays put when I bend it. I will have a rough plan for my track then adjust it until it looks good to my eye. Even for yard tracks I use very broad radius curves. It's a fun part of layout construction.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Country: USA | Posts: 2428 Go to Top of Page

kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/16/2016 :  12:54:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Frank >> Aesthetic foundation, Iím feeling a chill just looking at the photo, that sure is an inspirational shot. >> Photos like that CN shot are great starting points for your own 'composition'. I was inspired to start The Depot after seeing a photo of a C&NW station called 'Wall' in a Morning Sun book. The CN photo (of Forest ON) has been a favorite of mine for a while now.
You sure can provide a ton of operation into 72 measly inches. >> Another fun challenge of small layouts. It's one of the reasons I prefer small layouts to large.

Bob/rca2 >> I have one comment regarding adding the curves. You could contrast the former traction tracks (rusted light weight rail, tighter curves, catenary poles, overgrown right of way) with the Soo tracks (straighter, ballasted, heavier rail, less apparent rust). If you use commercial turnouts, that is going to limit what you can do as far as introducing curves. >> Damn you're good! That is exactly what I was intending. I'm a fan of traction and yes the trackwork definitely has it's own 'look and feel'. Tighter curves, lighter rail, differently spaced ties, and of course (when operational) catenary poles, wires and some very interesting home-built locomotives. That look and feel is something I wanted for the layout. I'll be writing more about it shortly. Track will be hand-laid making it possible to differentiate it from the branch mainline.

Mark >> You might find Iain Rice's 'Hotdog' plan useful. It was in a MRR mag a ways back. >> I'll try to track that down. He's been published over the years in the US press both online and in print but it's been a while since I've seen anything from him (mainly because I don't keep up with the hobby press).

Another thing to consider might be rotating the track clockwise as much as possible on a pivot point just to the left of the station. This would create slightly wedged shaped buildings against the backdrop that I find always helps to hide the straight lines and add depth to the layout. You might also be able to add a mirror to the road at the left end to help trick the eye. Industry no.1 should help to hide it. An interesting plan. >> Great idea, and one that would add character to the track design. The only problem is the exit angle of any tracks. Right now they have to exit at right angles to the board edge which means they need space to 'resolve'. Of course I could build it so that the cassettes fitted at an angle. I'll think about it for the next module which will be the terminus (called 'The End of the Line') in a couple of years time. The mirror idea is one that will explore for sure - thanks for that!

Michael >> That's a nice plan. I looked at it earlier today and my reaction is much in line with Bob's regarding broad gentle curves for the mainline. >> This layout has to play several roles - it has to be plausible and reflect to some degree real world practice, but it also should be interesting and of course have a slightly (dare I use the word) 'fantasy' feel to it: like a cartoon or painting. I'll have more to say on aesthetics later but the broad gentle curves are meant to reflect both the real world practice and also be aesthetically pleasing.
I assume you will build your own turnouts, which gives you more flexibility. >> Yes hand-built trackwork but this time with assistance from Fast Tracks products and also other sources to help me make it much more realistic than on The Depot. At some point in the next few years and when I'm better at it I will rebuild the trackwork on The Depot. Folks have said handlaying track is easy. That was not my experience. I found it challenging and stressful but I'm hoping it will be easier and more fun this time round.

Judging from your Depot module you are good at getting visually-appealing yet prototypical-looking curves in a short space. Are you considering having the tracks exiting the module at other than ninety degrees? >> Just 90 degrees for now, but with removable cassettes one should be able to exit the layout at any reasonable angle and something I might try another time.

Thanks all for your input. I'll post more this weekend including an updated plan.


http://thedepotonline.com/

Edited by - kumard on 01/16/2016 5:37:05 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 361 Go to Top of Page

robert goslin
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 01/17/2016 :  01:26:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kumard, this next installment to your layout is looking great. Plenty of good ideas being suggeted by everyone, so will be interesting to see what you come up with.
What are you going to use for your downtown area, kits or scratchbuilt structures ?


Regards Rob

Despite the cost of living, it's still popular.

Edited by - robert goslin on 01/17/2016 01:26:47 AM

Country: Australia | Posts: 1748 Go to Top of Page

Frank Palmer
Fireman



Posted - 01/17/2016 :  12:12:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Frank Palmer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Another fun challenge of small layouts. It's one of the reasons I prefer small layouts to large.

I had a garden layout for almost 10 years, Iíve been part of an Fn3 modular group for the past 11 years and now Iím building my small HO shelf layout and I find it very satisfying. Small can be good.



Edited by - Frank Palmer on 01/17/2016 12:15:37 PM

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kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/17/2016 :  12:38:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Robert >> What are you going to use for your downtown area, kits or scratchbuilt structures? >> All scratch-built. One of the areas I really want to develop further is my scratch-building abilities. The buildings on The Depot, even though mostly scratch-built, were done very quickly - almost as an afterthought. My main concern with The Depot was to finish it: there was no more important goal than that and as a result as long as everything roughly worked I was happy and moved on. However I've been inspired to become a better modeler by the work of other modelers on the forum - the amazing structures of Frank Palmer, the vignettes of Cowboybilly, the storytelling of Doc Tom and the work of several modelers over in the other forums. I'll be happy if I can come to close any of that.

http://thedepotonline.com/

Edited by - kumard on 01/18/2016 12:17:51 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 361 Go to Top of Page

kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/17/2016 :  12:59:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Frank >> I had a garden layout for almost 10 years, Iíve been part of an Fn3 modular group for the past 11 years and now Iím building my small HO shelf layout and I find it very satisfying. Small can be good. >> Agreed. After spending some time in the UK I became familiar with small layouts of that country (they have plenty of big layouts too). To me it almost bordered on some kind of art-form. I was looking yesterday at layouts that inspired me from back then (the 1980s) and found one that is still on the exhibition circuit after nearly 25 years. It's called Llanastr: http://www.scalefour.org/layouts/exhibllanastr.html#row2

Iain Rice liked it so much he did a plan based on it. It may be difficult for others to see from the pictures but I was impressed with how much atmosphere and operation could be created within such a small area. There's is definitely an influence of that layout within The Depot even though they are set thousands of miles apart. The conclusion I came to was that much can be conveyed within a small space. So yes small is good!

Llanastr: one of the biggest influences on 'The Depot'. It's just a really nicely composed and balanced scene.



http://thedepotonline.com/

Edited by - kumard on 02/22/2016 12:14:33 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 361 Go to Top of Page

kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/17/2016 :  1:54:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Research


I'm currently doing research for the layout. I've done plenty of research for the Soo Branch in general (although I see that a new book has just come out called: Soo Line in Minnesota which I might purchase - nearly $70 though - ouch!).

My research encompasses these books:



1. Prairie Depots (Morning Sun) - this has some fine pictures of depots in both rural and town settings, mostly Great Northern. It also has some really nice shots of the right of way taken from the back of a train that show the trackwork set in the countryside of the upper Midwest.

2. Chicago and North Western (Morning Sun) - one of my favorite railroad books with plenty of pictures of cross-country branch-line steam. I've been using this book for color reference while weathering and painting the boxcars on 'The Depot'.

3. Rails to the Rosebud (South Platte Press) - this is the history of a pioneer railroad in South Dakota. It provided much of the backstory for my branchline.

4. Soo Line in Color (Morning Sun) - great color reference and general reference for the Soo Line - an essential book for Soo Line fans.

I'm also doing some research for the traction part of the railroad. Though not a primary interest I often buy traction books especially if they have a freight component to their operations. Traction lines often have really interesting electric freight locomotives which are a strong interest of mine.

Here are some of the traction books I've been reading:



1. Illinois Terminal - (Morning Sun)- I just finished this book and it has become the main inspiration for the traction part of the layout. It gave up its passenger operations in 1956 but continued servicing its industrial customers while feeding freight back onto the surrounding railroad network. The trackwork will be based on pictures from this book.

2. Sacramento Northern - This was a local railroad and one that I can still go and photograph the remains of. I did a research trip to this railroad six months ago and came across the Western Railroad museum. The museum is built on the old right of way of the Sacramento Northern, is devoted to traction, and was a place that I spent afternoons photographing, not only the rolling stock, but also the infrastructure such as catenary and trackwork. Traction track really does look different from regular railroad track and the photos from this railroad will be an important reference for the layout.


3. Visalia Electric Railroad - I've written about this several times and recently did a research trip to the orange grove district around Visalia.

I might buy more traction books from Morning Sun. They often have really nice shots of street life in small towns (http://morningsunbooks.com/collections/all-hardcover/products/streetcar-scenes-of-the) which is something I'm going to need as a reference for my scratch-building of the downtown buildings. I'll keep you posted.


http://thedepotonline.com/

Edited by - kumard on 01/17/2016 2:49:09 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 361 Go to Top of Page

quartergauger48
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 01/17/2016 :  3:47:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kumard, look on Amazon, used books section. Like new books in every topic almost, and dirt cheap and most in excellent condition'...


Ted

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kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 01/17/2016 :  5:50:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by quartergauger48

Kumard, look on Amazon, used books section. Like new books in every topic almost, and dirt cheap and most in excellent condition'...



Thanks! I just purchased 'Streetcar Scenes of the 1950s in Color' for $15 (normally $40-50). Look forward to reading it.


http://thedepotonline.com/

Country: USA | Posts: 361 Go to Top of Page
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