Railroad Line Forums - The Town
Railroad Line Forums
Username:
Password:
Save Password


Register
Forgot Password?
  Home   Forums   Events Calendar   Sponsors   Support the RRLine   Guestbook   FAQ     Register
Active Topics | Active Polls | Resources | Members | Online Users | Live Chat | Avatar Legend | Search | Statistics
Photo Album | File Lister | File Library
[ Active Members: 2 | Anonymous Members: 0 | Guests: 76 ]  [ Total: 78 ]  [ Newest Member: Davidsamuels ]
 All Forums
 Model Railroad Forums
 Micro & Mini Layouts
 The Town
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Author Previous Topic: a spring morning in germany Topic Next Topic: The Depot (at Carendt)
Page: of 15

kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/20/2017 :  9:35:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi everyone. Here's an update on this project.

The first turnout is finished!

As I mentioned in previous posts I'm using this turnout construction as a kind of test-bed whereby I try different methods and figure out ways around problems as they arise. I've finished this turnout and learned alot from its construction and these lessons will be put to use moving forward. However I'm also very tempted to go back to this turnout and start again while avoiding the mistakes the second time around. But I'll decide another time since right now I want to keep moving forward.

I added copper ties

So having settled on the copper tie method I swapped out a bunch of wooden ties for copper ties. I tried to guess where I would need the copper ties and added more around the frog area (not enough as it turned out). In fact the lesson here is: around the frog area - have one in three be a copper tie just to ensure you have one available should you need it at that spot.

Some of the longer copper ties were not the same height as the wooden ties so I added cardboard shims. At this point my nice diagram beneath the ties became harder to see.


Laying the stock rails

Starting with the stock rails was a big mistake. Since I couldn't see the diagram beneath the rails clearly I misplaced the rails and this had a knock-on effect (something I will come to in a moment). One needs to start with the frog and then add the stock rails. But anyway here the stock rails are being laid and went down pretty easily. I used spikes to hold them in place and just soldered the rail to each copper tie (and then removed the spikes).


Gauge and running ability were checked by these two items: a box car truck and an NMRA gauge.



Frog Part One

I decided to build a The Proto:87 Stores frog kit. It took a couple of attempts but eventually ended up with something that looked pretty good. They are very nice looking frogs but in the end they did not fit the turnout. I could have ordered the correct size but it seemed easier to use the drawing to determine rail sizes, frog angles and rail position than to try to fit an alien frog into the drawing and then try to fit things around it.


Frog Part Two

So I went ahead an built my own frog. I printed off another working diagram from Templot and used it to determine lengths and angles.


I filed down the points and then positioned them on the diagram and soldered them together. Very easy and quick.


Frog area rails

I used the same diagram to build the remaining frog area items: the two guard rails and the wing rails.


Fitting the frog and closure rails

Now the problems began. Because I misplaced the stock rails, I could not place the frog into the correct position as indicated by the diagram. The stock rails were too near the frog position and in order to make sure the gauge stayed true I had to move the frog away from the points. To cut a long story short the closure rails ended up being too long. They work just fine but don't look good and at a later date I may cut into this section and shorten the closure rails.


The whole project got quite messy and I made a few more mistakes: I glued the rail down to hold it in place before soldering. However I didn't realize that the glue then stops the flux working which meant that the rails would not weld to the tie. I burnt a few ties and I accidentally gouged out a few ties etc. But it's all part of the learning process and regardless of the issues the turnout works really well: my truck navigates the points and frogs very smoothly without derailments.


After painting the rail and copper ties and generally cleaning up the whole project the turnout looked pretty good. I very pleased with it. As mentioned before I may redo the whole thing (I can re-use the cut rails) but I'll decide about that once I've got a few more sections under my belt.





There will be another round of painting and coloring when I add ballast.

Next up is the trackwork for the double crossover. I'll have more to say about that next week.


Thanks all!!



Edited by - kumard on 02/21/2017 12:19:55 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 336 Go to Top of Page

pastor_t
Crew Chief



Posted - 02/21/2017 :  06:31:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kumard.

When I'm building point and crossing work (as we call it over here) I always start by building and placing the crossing V. It's essential to have this in the right place.

Once the V is correctly placed the rest of the turnout can be built from it using the appropriate gauges.



Edited by - pastor_t on 02/21/2017 06:33:04 AM

Country: United Kingdom | Posts: 516 Go to Top of Page

George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 02/21/2017 :  07:27:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The turnout looks good, Kumard. I'm still at the point where each turnout I build is a learning experience. I start with the stock rails and fit the frog in place using track gauges from each stock rail to position it. So far it's worked out OK for me. I make my own frogs similar to the way you did.

George



Country: USA | Posts: 13650 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 02/21/2017 :  08:09:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Kumar,

I believe the traditional way to build turnouts is to start with the stock rails and then the 'vee'. That determines the position of the frog. The. The frog and points are then built. If you think about it, small variations in positioning of the stock rails results in variations in frog position, especially for large number turnouts.

If you build the frog at the bench or use a casting then it looks like you have to start with the frog and fit stock rails as you showed us.

Your turnout looks very nice.

Mike


____________________________________
And we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing. Bob Dylan

Country: USA | Posts: 2205 Go to Top of Page

Frank Palmer
Fireman



Posted - 02/21/2017 :  09:10:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit Frank Palmer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Kumar, my feeling is: if it looks good and it works good don't mess with success.


Edited by - Frank Palmer on 02/21/2017 09:11:25 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 3590 Go to Top of Page

kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 02/21/2017 :  12:50:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Pastor R >> When I'm building point and crossing work (as we call it over here) I always start by building and placing the crossing V. It's essential to have this in the right place. >> Thanks Tony. Yes agreed. I'm going to do it this way around next time. I think the stock rails should be placed last.

George D, Michael >> I start with the stock rails and fit the frog in place using track gauges from each stock rail to position it. >> George, Michael, I did it that way round on The Depot and it is a method that works very well when eyeballing all the measurements and using only the gauge to determine the position of the other elements. In this case however I really wanted the turnout to stay true to the diagram and therefore I really needed to start with the frog, then the wing rails, then the closure rails and then the point blades. After that you can cut the notches in the stock rails at the correct place. Even slight deviations on the stock rails will cause the position of the other elements to vary widely and therefore move away from the drawing beneath.

Michael >> If you build the frog at the bench or use a casting then it looks like you have to start with the frog and fit stock rails as you showed us. >> Thanks Michael. Yes, lesson learned. There are two methods for building turnouts depending on whether you are using a diagram/plan or not.

Frank >> my feeling is: if it looks good and it works good don't mess with success. >> Thanks Frank. Yes so true, however having slept on the issue and knowing how something can bug me going forward I'm going to shorten the closure rails and move the point blades nearer the frog. It means cutting and replacing rail but it will look alot better once it is done. I'll get to it sometime this week.



Thanks for the comments all.



Country: USA | Posts: 336 Go to Top of Page

Carl B
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 02/21/2017 :  3:29:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit Carl B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I second Franks remark. By the time it was painted and weathered, it looked beautiful.

But if you're going to lose sleep on it- (which I have done on other things myself)
then by all means- fix it to satisfy yourself.!



Country: USA | Posts: 2124 Go to Top of Page

kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/20/2017 :  01:16:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Carl >> But if you're going to lose sleep on it- (which I have done on other things myself) then by all means- fix it to satisfy yourself.! >> Thanks Carl, I slept on it and awoke quite content with the turnout. I'm going to leave it as is. I'll revisit this issue later in the project.


Country: USA | Posts: 336 Go to Top of Page

kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/20/2017 :  01:29:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi everyone. Here's an quick update on this project.

I'm currently building the crossover.

I transferred a cut of the drawing to my work bench. I just had to make sure I left enough space at the ends to build complete turnouts


I needed a lot of very long copper ties. The ones I had were not thick enough and didn't match the height of wooden ties so I decided to add shims to the whole lot. I sliced up some light card and glued the strips to the back of each tie using epoxy. That brought them up to the correct height.


I needed a new tie spacing gauge so I quick made one of out of styrene. I sanded the edges down and measured with my calipers until I had one end at 19" (tie center-to-center) and the the other 22 inch. I ended up using the smaller width for laying down the crossover ties.


I now needed to decide on the angle of the ties in relation to rail. After studying Paul Mallery's book I decided lay them perpendicular to the center point of the frogs.



I decided to use copper ties for the whole crossover, I glued them down using two-part epoxy and this is the result. I'm going to have to cut more gaps in the ties to isolate the rails and will fill the gaps with filler before painting the ties.


Moving on to the rest of the trackwork I was able to get back to using wooden ties spaced with a copper tie every sixth tie.


I eventually ran out of copper ties long enough for the turnouts. I ordered some last week and I'm am currently waiting on them to arrive. The work so far came to about 2.5 hours and I have about an hours work left for just laying ties. Here's where I ended up.


So next I have to figure out how to build a crossover. I've decided to adapt Tim Warris's method. He built this amazing crossover/turnout:


The underlying principle of construction is to lay notched rails over each other. By doing that you preserve the curve of the rail through the frog and get an exact fit of rail and spacing. His secret weapon was a jig that he custom-built to hold the rail in place while soldering and cutting. I don't think I need the jig. I just need to lay down the first set of rails over the drawing, solder them to the ties and make the cut the notches where the rails will cross. I'm speculating that it will be straightforward and it all may end up a hot mess but I'll do a practice run and then get to it.


Where I'm heading with all of this:


Anyhow that's it for the moment. Thanks all!



Edited by - kumard on 03/20/2017 12:55:06 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 336 Go to Top of Page

George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/20/2017 :  09:10:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is going to be interesting to follow, Kumard. Are your ties glued to the paper plan or is the track to be lifted off when it's done?

George



Country: USA | Posts: 13650 Go to Top of Page

Frank Palmer
Fireman



Posted - 03/20/2017 :  11:14:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit Frank Palmer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Can't wait to see this action.


Country: USA | Posts: 3590 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/20/2017 :  1:44:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kumar, that is some fancy track work. I'll be following along. The detailed photos are appreciated.


Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29461 Go to Top of Page

Carl B
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 03/20/2017 :  5:58:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit Carl B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wow ! Amazing project.


Country: USA | Posts: 2124 Go to Top of Page

kumard
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/20/2017 :  6:19:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit kumard's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks all.

George D >> This is going to be interesting to follow, Kumard. Are your ties glued to the paper plan or is the track to be lifted off when it's done? >> Thanks George. The ties are stuck to a plan which itself is stuck to a cardboard base. The base has been cut into pieces to allow me to work on each turnout or crossover on the work bench. When all the tracklaying is finished I'll assemble the cardboard-backed turnouts like a jigsaw puzzle and stick them down with white glue.



My copper ties have arrived today so I'll be continuing on this week.




Edited by - kumard on 03/20/2017 6:26:09 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 336 Go to Top of Page

Frank Palmer
Fireman



Posted - 03/20/2017 :  7:03:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Frank Palmer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Humm, interesting process. That way when complete it should all fit right back together just as planned, brilliant!


Country: USA | Posts: 3590 Go to Top of Page
Page: of 15 Previous Topic: a spring morning in germany Topic Next Topic: The Depot (at Carendt)  
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Previous Page | Next Page
Jump To:
Railroad Line Forums © 2000-14 Railroad Line Co. Go To Top Of Page
Steam was generated in 0.47 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000