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Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 11/06/2017 :  3:09:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

I just spoke with the Canadian supplier for Del Tang (Diigiit Robotics) and they indicated that Del Tang has announced an end to their relationship due to the Canadian orders being of such high volume and the fact that Del Tang cannot supply the orders in a timely manner.

The person I spoke with at Diigiit Robotics mentioned that the Del Tang products are manufactured in the owners home and as such the owner doesn't wish to expand operations to keep up with the demand.

This is not good news for modellers. I also noticed that the American distributor ON3GUY is indicating that many Del Tang products are back-ordered.

So Del Tang may not be the route to take. Thoughts anyone???





When I started with the Detang system David and I were almost in constant contact at the beginning of his posting about his product. As a matter of fact a former friend of mine designed his logo. David comes from the airplane fraternity. His first love is micro planes. That's why his R/C's are so small. They were originally designed for electric powered micro planes. He started making them available for model railroaders. The first ones were in the 5-6 volt range. But as more railroad modelers got interested in them and started using them he developed the 12 volt ones and other products. I think the business grew bigger than he had anticipated. And not wanting out source the manufacturing of the product will hurt his business I would say. To bad. I think he has a very viable product and it could grow lager.

I figured at some point in time that this would happen. That's why I'm looking at the Fly-Sky and seeing how it can be applied to model railroading. I'll be experimenting over the winter with this new system. If all works out well I'm contemplating writing an article. Time will tell.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2572 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 11/08/2017 :  10:33:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bernd,

In the last day or so, I have read several of your posts on Freerails. You're obviously very well versed in the subject of battery power.

I'm new to the forums and had contacted Steve Sherrill by way of my wife's Facebook page. He mentioned re: Del Tang that he had been originally in contact with David of Del Tang by way of the Freerails forum.

It looks to me like the Freerails Forum is not accepting new members at this point. I did indeed fill out a registration application but have not heard back in two days plus the forum seems to indicate it's not accepting new members. This means I can't try to contact David through the forum as I have no access.

All this to say that I'm interested in any and all of your knowledge on this subject, experiments and experiences.

One question with regard to HO scale and trying to squeeze battery powered components into a steam locomotive tender - why can't I amass the required electronics for deadrail (battery, receiver, reed switch etc) wire them up properly and then stack them on a base of styrene. Then scratch build a custom tender around these required components) As it is now, it's very difficult to get a HO tender that is large enough to hold battery power components unless it's a really big locomotive.

This leads me to what you are experimenting with (Fly-Sky) - something I currently know nothing about. I'd like to hear about it and just what you're doing.

Thank You, Bernd

Rick




Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

NVWalt
Section Hand

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  06:34:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was set on trying out the DelTang system but now that may be a no go?
Please enlighten me/us on the FlySky if you can. I have taken apart a couple little helicopters and hooked them up to an F7 (HO) and need to put a couple more batteries in it but it is rather slow and doesn't seem like it will do nothing but pull itself around.But, it does work.
Any ideas or suggestions?.....Walt



Country: USA | Posts: 96 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 11/09/2017 :  08:13:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Walt, Rickie,

Give me a couple of days to put some info together. I'll post it here.

Rickie,

I was a moderator on Freerails. I also was the Admin. for a while but it took to much away from my modeling time and I really didn't understand how the software worked so I gave up. The forum had a major software break down. I don't believe they have the software restored fully. The posting module doesn't work to well for me. They swear there is nothing wrong. The forum has sort of been going down hill a bit with the new Admin. I'll leave a message for the Admin. you want to join. They sort of have a convoluted way of signing up to deter trolls. Also you can reach Dave T through e-mail at his site. Here is the link: http://www.deltang.co.uk/email.htm

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2572 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 11/09/2017 :  10:11:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

Hi Bernd,

It looks to me like the Freerails Forum is not accepting new members at this point. I did indeed fill out a registration application but have not heard back in two days plus the forum seems to indicate it's not accepting new members. This means I can't try to contact David through the forum as I have no access.




Rickie,

Si, from Freerails, got back to me. He says that you were sent an e-mail with your user name and password to log on. They will use your first name and give you a log in password that you change once you are logged on. Check your e-mail to see if you have a message from Freerails. If not or you deleted it I'll see if they can redo your request.

Bernd

P.S. For those interested in the use of battery power and radio control I'm going to post my experience's in this sub-forum. Perhaps we can get more members to join in. I'm all for R/C but do not favor DCC as a control. Just because I'm not an advocate of DCC and sound doesn't mean you should not post if you are into DCC with sound. Please do. Perhaps some smart electronics person will be able to combine this as a product for the general modelers who favor that system of control.


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2572 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  1:06:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bernd,

Thanks for the reply. I checked and nothing at this time in my email account from freerails, at least that I can find. Not in my Spam either. hmmmmn

I am of the same mind as you in regard to no DCC and although sound would be nice, I don't require it. I'm in favour of battery power for several reasons. For one, I've never been present at an operating session that didn't struggle with electrical contact issues. Secondly, I like the realism factor - real life railroads simply don't have wires running under the track. Just my thoughts but I also want everyone to just get along and be happy.

I will soak up everything you send me and no doubt Walt will as well.

I did email David at Del Tang. Perhaps a personal note from him will be forthcoming concerning the inventory available. Did I read that he had sold the business?

Okay, well thanks Bernd

Rick



Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 11/09/2017 :  3:29:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

Hi Bernd,

Thanks for the reply. I checked and nothing at this time in my email account from freerails, at least that I can find. Not in my Spam either. hmmmmn



I'm going to leave the next move up to you. I think I may have burned a bridge in answering back. There seems to be an attitude problem at present with a couple of moderators. If you're still interested in joining give it another go. There's is a UK site that you may want to join. They have a section on radio control. It's posted in the new thread I started here: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=49713

quote:
I am of the same mind as you in regard to no DCC and although sound would be nice, I don't require it. I'm in favour of battery power for several reasons. For one, I've never been present at an operating session that didn't struggle with electrical contact issues. Secondly, I like the realism factor - real life railroads simply don't have wires running under the track. Just my thoughts but I also want everyone to just get along and be happy.


I think there are to many modelers that want to run on this subject instead of learning to walk first. I would like sound also, but don't need all the extra for loco consisting, BEMF and all that other stuff. We can get more into that in the other thread.

quote:
I will soak up everything you send me and no doubt Walt will as well.


It's not that much but I'll put out there what I've learned and what I'm experimenting with.

quote:
I did email David at Del Tang. Perhaps a personal note from him will be forthcoming concerning the inventory available. Did I read that he had sold the business?


Hope you get a response from David. Please share if you do. And no, I haven't heard he sold the business.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2572 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  8:03:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bernd,

Well, I hope you didn't burn any bridges. It's a small enough fraternity as it is (modellers who take the time to communicate with others)

I did indeed receive a reply from David, it read as follows: Thanks for your interest Rick. Micron UK has most of my products. Regards, David.

I went to the Micron UK home page and tried to sort through the product information, but to no avail regarding anything related to Del Tang. They may have changed the names of the various products that Del Tang used to sell.
But essentially it was a dead end for me, to this point. Then again, you might recognize something in the nomenclature.

A particular question that I have is what voltage is really necessary to run an HO motor. I've read that although they are 12v, they really only need 7.4 or so to operate (especially in HO). One article I had been reading was supporting the need for only a two cell LIPO, therefore cutting down on some of the space required during installation. Any thoughts on that?

Secondly, what scale of modelling are you involved in?
It appears that many of the contributors to the forums are modelling O scale or On3.

Okay, thanks. Rick




Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

Rickie
New Hire

Posted - 11/11/2017 :  1:01:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The grassroots growth of this method of model train control has morphed in different directions during the past six or seven years and this fact in my view has served to confuse the playing field for those modellers hoping to use these battery powered and radio controlled solutions to control trains on their own layouts.

In my opinion, from a realism perspective the concept of locomotives operating under their own power seems unparalleled and any arguments to the alternative are difficult to digest.

In the short term, I believe “Battery Powered – Radio Controlled” hardware will improve dramatically in the short term and as it does, the marketing of the product will be absorbed and spearheaded by professionals. Protocols will develop and branding will be established. Then modellers will be purchasing off the shelf in the same way they buy their DCC units now.

The majority of modellers these days are probably heavily invested in DCC. For them, they can simply choose to add or not to add “battery powered-radio controlled” locomotives to their current operation. Either way there are no losers.

It would certainly be beneficial for me to be able to augment my somewhat newbie and limited understanding of how “Battery Powered – Radio Controlled” model trains function. In the next post, I will attempt to describe how I believe the electronics are schemed. Bernd will no doubt be able to shed some light where my thoughts and reality diverge.




Country: Canada | Posts: 35 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 11/11/2017 :  2:23:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

The grassroots growth of this method of model train control has morphed in different directions during the past six or seven years and this fact in my view has served to confuse the playing field for those modellers hoping to use these battery powered and radio controlled solutions to control trains on their own layouts.

In my opinion, from a realism perspective the concept of locomotives operating under their own power seems unparalleled and any arguments to the alternative are difficult to digest.

In the short term, I believe “Battery Powered – Radio Controlled” hardware will improve dramatically in the short term and as it does, the marketing of the product will be absorbed and spearheaded by professionals. Protocols will develop and branding will be established. Then modellers will be purchasing off the shelf in the same way they buy their DCC units now.

The majority of modellers these days are probably heavily invested in DCC. For them, they can simply choose to add or not to add “battery powered-radio controlled” locomotives to their current operation. Either way there are no losers.

It would certainly be beneficial for me to be able to augment my somewhat newbie and limited understanding of how “Battery Powered – Radio Controlled” model trains function. In the next post, I will attempt to describe how I believe the electronics are schemed. Bernd will no doubt be able to shed some light where my thoughts and reality diverge.





See my post here for an answer: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=49713

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Country: USA | Posts: 2572 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 11/11/2017 :  2:59:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rickie

Bernd,

Well, I hope you didn't burn any bridges. It's a small enough fraternity as it is (modellers who take the time to communicate with others)


Nope, no bridges burned. I went straight to the horses mouth and go an answer. All is good and I'm posting on the forum. Mainly staying in the R/C section.

quote:
I did indeed receive a reply from David, it read as follows: Thanks for your interest Rick. Micron UK has most of my products. Regards, David.


Rather short. Must be he's quite busy.

quote:
I went to the Micron UK home page and tried to sort through the product information, but to no avail regarding anything related to Del Tang. They may have changed the names of the various products that Del Tang used to sell.
But essentially it was a dead end for me, to this point. Then again, you might recognize something in the nomenclature.


Even I have a hard time figuring out what is meant by certain phrases. I do know ESC stands for Electronic Speed Control. If you see a 2 X ESC it means that you use two channels for steering such as on a tank or caterpillar crawler. I would suggest spending some time on the Deltang website and looking through some of his videos. Much can be learned by watching them. Also use the website to compare the different Rx's (receivers) with what's on the Micron site.

quote:
A particular question that I have is what voltage is really necessary to run an HO motor. I've read that although they are 12v, they really only need 7.4 or so to operate (especially in HO). One article I had been reading was supporting the need for only a two cell LIPO, therefore cutting down on some of the space required during installation. Any thoughts on that?


The question should be at what scale speed should my engine run. Typically freights run up around 50 to 60 MPH's. So use the wheel diameter to figure out how many rpm's it takes to go a mile. Then work backwards through the gearing to come out at a motor speed. This math still boggles my mind and I can't seem to get the same answer twice. I must be a math dummy.

A good example is the wreck crane I animated using a Deltang Rx. The Rx43d-4-v5 works on 3-6 volts. The motors used to drive the different functions of the crane are 6 volts. The steam engines that have the Rx41d-v5 also work at 3-6 volts. I had to use what David calls ADD2 to increase the amperage for the motor used. I removed the 12 volt motor and installed a 6 volt motor in the engine. The thing is modelers have used the 12 volt system for so long they forget that now you can get lower voltage motors. The 6 volt motor in the steam engine pulls just as many cars as if it had a 12 volt motor.

Also if you take a closer look at my steam engine you'll notice that it carries an on-board voltage regulator. This allows the engine to run on plain DC, AC (yes Alternating Current) and DCC. So I can run that engine on somebody's DCC wired layout. I'm willing to bet nobody ever thought that R/C could be that universal.


quote:
Secondly, what scale of modelling are you involved in?
It appears that many of the contributors to the forums are modelling O scale or On3.

Okay, thanks. Rick


I'm in HO, HOn3, HOn30 and the Orphan Child of Scales, TT scale (1:120 in between N and HO)

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Edited by - Bernd on 11/11/2017 3:02:33 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 2572 Go to Top of Page

DanT
New Hire

Posted - 12/21/2017 :  5:32:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Folks, I'm new to this forum, but have been developing and operating my HO dead rail equipment for the last 7 years. I have excellent sound and motion control and should soon be able to balance charge batteries on-board without the need for wires or track.

I've given 10 clinics on this subject in the last 3-4 years and have demonstrated BPRC operation on numerous club and private layouts. The experience has been very positive and very satisfying with a new found appreciation for the hobby.

Our group will be considering some aspects of commercialization next year related to BPRC, but it is in the very early stages. I hope to provide some useful guidance.

Dan



Country: | Posts: 25 Go to Top of Page

jburch
Engine Wiper



Posted - 12/21/2017 :  7:53:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Dan,

Welcome to the group, it sounds like you will have a lot to offer. I am getting started on my first dead rail layout and I am looking for the best system that offers what I need for my scale. I am in On30, mostly smaller engines. Biggest I have is a 4-6-0 which shouldn't be a problem no matter what I choose. It goes down in size from there. What system do you have, especially since you are in a smaller scale and you have sound and motion. I am looking for something to do the same. I have some ideas and questions but I am also looking for recommendations. Can I start with "what is working best for you. Is a mixed system or are you sticking with mostly one manufacturer?

Just the beginning,



Country: USA | Posts: 328 Go to Top of Page

DanT
New Hire

Posted - 12/21/2017 :  10:39:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Jeff,

It all began while watching guys racing their r/c cars. I figured if I could slow things down, I might have a way of building a layout with complicated trackwork without the headaches of wiring it. DCC also did not appeal to me for many reasons.

I soon after bought a Spectrum DX5e aircraft transmitter with AR500 receiver and a race car type electronic speed controller. I wired it all together, and it worked! I was hooked!

In early 2012 I exchanged many e-mails with David Theunissen of DelTang on adapting his small receivers for use with model trains. After about 4 months of discussion, I received the first of several receivers, and it's been uphill ever since. I have 4 BPRC engines. Some have been operating for hundreds of hours, so I have a lot of data for future locomotive designs.

One of my engines is a Broadway Limited 4-6-4 Hudson with QSI sound decoder which includes back-EMF for slow speed operation, regulated throttle control for automatic MUing, adjustable acceleration/deceleration, Sound of Power, and some other features. The on-board receiver is a DelTang Rx61x type and my transmitter is a factory built DelTang Tx20.

As mentioned, on-board balance charging is my current effort, and this will be followed by radio controlled track switching from my hand held transmitter. This is so you can select the route you want to take on a layout mainline or yard as you are moving along.

I'm truly enjoying model railroading as never before. There's just something special about always knowing your train will never surge or stall under any conditions, and those headlights will never flicker.

Re your operation, I do not yet have or know the scale-up factors for On30. What works best for me is/are:

* QSI sound decoders - many sound effects without the need for DCC
* Eneloop AA/AAA NiMH batteries - high quality, reasonable cost.
* Panasonic 18650 Li-ion (cylindrical) batteries - high capacity, very good quality, avoids heavy LiPo wiring.
* Keystone battery holders - low profile, better grade material.
* DelTang transmitters/receivers - small, versatile, many variations for model railroading.
* Escap, Maxon or Faulhaber motors - very high efficiency. Also use can motors.
* Pololu voltage regulators - small in size, high efficiency.
* 28 Gauge stranded silicone wiring - no cover shrinking when soldering, highly flexible.

My goal is to go with open source components and to adapt hobby radio for use with existing DC/DCC technology.

Thanks for hearing my story.

Dan






Edited by - DanT on 12/24/2017 10:45:20 PM

Country: | Posts: 25 Go to Top of Page

Bernd
Fireman



Posted - 12/22/2017 :  08:05:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bernd's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Dan,

First let me welcome you to the Railroad Line forum. Glad you came over from the, I believe, failing Freerails I'm sorry to say. Now if we can only get David over here to.

You've got my attention with your work. I'm interested in the sound aspect of using the Deltang receivers. I'm also not a fan of DCC. I'm working on a drive mechanical drive system that allows consisting of different locomotives. As far as Dead Rail is concerned, I'm not going to use it to it's fullest extend. I'm more interested in using "any" kind of track power. I've been looking at AC, DC, and DCC to be converted for use on board for the Deltang receivers. I am experimenting some with battery power. Using 2/3 "A" battery pack from Tenergy.

Thanks for your post. Looking to see more of your work posted here.

Bernd


A PESSIMIST sees a dark tunnel
An OPTIMIST sees light at the end of the tunnel
A REALIST sees a freight train
The LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER sees three idiots standing on the tracks

Edited by - Bernd on 12/22/2017 08:06:28 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 2572 Go to Top of Page
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