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Author Previous Topic: Structures on the LP&N RR, vol.3 Topic Next Topic: new ULTRA flat black acrylic paint
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deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 04/14/2016 :  5:19:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, I went back and looked at the skylights after reading the latest set of comments. I think the primary problem is they stick out too much. I understand the idea to get some "roofing tar". But I agree you should cut around the skylights, remove the skylights and the underlying 'roofing paper', and then reseat the skylights (with more "tar," or even better some paper that runs up the skylight framing.)

dave



Country: USA | Posts: 6200 Go to Top of Page

jeyjey
Engine Wiper



Posted - 04/14/2016 :  6:38:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by deemery

... or even better some paper that runs up the skylight framing....


This I think would be the biggest improvement.

Cheers,
Jeff.


Modelling the D&RGW and C&S in HOn3.

Country: Ireland | Posts: 365 Go to Top of Page

Bill Gill
Fireman



Posted - 04/14/2016 :  7:21:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kris, These comments are late to the discussion, but after going back a couple pages to look at the skylights, here are some some thoughts:

Assuming the main purpose of the skylights was to bring light into the building rather than ventilate it, they just look much too small overall to provide useful light down below.

However, they don't look too tall to me. Blackhawk, Colorado gets lots of snow and skylights are notorious sources of leaking roofs, so having them stand proud of the roof seems like good design.

Lowering one end of the skylights doesn't look like it would effectively increase to amount of light coming through them to the workspace.

I agree with Mike Hohn that the location of the skylights on the rolled roofing makes the skylights appear to be just stuck on top of the roof. It seems ("seams"?) like the roofers would have tried to avoid all that cutting and fitting if the skylights were already there, and if the skylights were added later, there'd be evidence of the cutting and patching.

I don't remember how far from the viewer the roof will be when set in place. If it's close then the frames for the lights do look a bit thick. Also if the viewer is close and can see there is a black "floor" to the skylight as can be seen in the photos, then the illusion doesn't hold up.

So, a couple suggestions:

If possible, make bigger skylights, not taller, but longer and wider. Locate them so that the rolled roofing , flashing, any patches and tar work together to subtly indicate when the skylights were installed.

If the skylights stay closed and their glass is dirty, then the frame thickness and the black "floors" are hidden. If you want to open a couple, then cut out the roof under the frame of those if they can be seen from normal viewing angles and distances.

Your NY Mill is a terrific project with great techniques and looks, don't let this one detail bug you.






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quartergauger48
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 04/14/2016 :  9:13:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think Bill, hit the nail on the head'. I thought they were to small when you first installed them Kris'. But I didn't want to question your judgement as you are a master modeler'..But I think a larger skylight will look better'...



Ted

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UKGuy
Fireman



Posted - 04/15/2016 :  12:49:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit UKGuy's Homepage  Send UKGuy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
The skylights are the correct size (and placement) based on the prototype plans that Kris is working from of the original building.



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Frank Palmer
Fireman



Posted - 04/15/2016 :  09:51:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit Frank Palmer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Kris, you've certainly had more than your share of misfortune lately. Feel better and let's toast to a better new year.


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hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 04/27/2016 :  2:01:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank all for looking in. I just updated the Balsa Foam information links on page 1 of this thread, thus it's popping up as being updated.

Well... the update is I'm still trying to get moved into my new studio... it's taking a lot longer than I anticipated. A lot longer...

That said, I'll state that I have been trying to figure out how to remove the skylights without destruction of the entire mill roof. The Liquid Leading is proving to be a better adhesive than expected, particularly with tissue paper. I may end up going to plan "B" and just adding a bit more tar around the windows. I may also add a few small strips of asphalt roofing to make it look like the windows are a bit more mounted.

I still owe everyone an update on the coloring of the stacks... have not forgotten that. So stay tuned.


-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Country: USA | Posts: 6950 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/03/2016 :  2:27:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All. Thanks to everyone for the time you have taken to peek in to see what's going on.

Well, my move into the new studio is taking a lot longer than I expected. I have run into another delay due to a furniture shuffle. I was about 2/3rds of the way unpacked in the studio when there was a major change in the set-up. My other half is now taking all of the furniture from my studio and I'm going to get 'new stuff' as the older furniture will fit better in her studio. So, I'm back to ground zero, and I'm in a bit of a holding pattern as it's going to be a couple of additional weeks now until I can get 'operational' modeling wise.

I've also discovered that I have lost my notes for the coloring of the stacks. I usually make notes in a bound spiral notebook, but I had packed my books/notes and was making abbreviated notes on a couple of 3x5 cards. Appears that the cards got tossed with some packing material during the unpacking phase. So, I'm going to do a quick update, working from memory, on the coloring of the stacks.

Jerry, to respond to your question. No, I did not experience any difference in the painting of the metals. It's just the fabrication process where I noted any differences, as expected. I found that the seam lines on the aluminum tube took less pressure in the tube cutter than in what was used in the brass. To my eye, the seam lines in the aluminum tube turned out better than the seam lines in the brass tube. The softer aluminum produced just enough more of a rounded edge at the 'score' line that when painted/weathered it becomes a bit more pronounced to the eye. It could also be an optical illusion as the score marks on the aluminum tube are closer together than on the brass tube.

Note that I still need to add some guide lines to the tubes. This will be done once the structure is sited for the diorama base.

Coloring and weathering of the stacks:
Materials:
A) Krylon Flat Black Primer (Auto) Spray Can.
B) Rust colored pastels (Ground pastels, mix of various rust red/orange rust tones.)
C) Bragdon Weathering Powder: https://www.bragdonent.com/smpic/item4.htm
-- a) FF-66 Dust Bowl Brown.
-- b) FF-68 Ash.
-- c) FF-64 Soot Black.
D) Clear ETOH.
E) Medium A-I wash.
F) Rust-All - Rust Solution.
G) Rust-All - Dead Flat Solution.
H) Liquid Leading.
I) Lifecolor Acrylic Paint - Smoke #208 http://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/lfctsc208.htm

1) Allow the paper collar to cure dry prior to priming the tubes.
After the tubes were scored with the seam lines and had a collar attached, the tubes were both cleaned with rag which was soaked in clear ETOH. This was to remove finger oils from the metal surfaces.
2) Spray both tubes with the black primer and allow the tubes to cure dry.

Note that the two tubes received different sequences of coloring/weathering to produce a bit of visual difference between the two stacks.
Color the brass (short) tube:
1) Using a #2 soft round brush, apply the rust colored ground pastel mix at random along the length of the tube.
2) Using a stippling motion around the top of the tube, apply a light wash of clear ETOH/Rust-All brush load mix, allowing the solution to run down the tube a bit until it is necessary to add additional ETOH/Rust-All to continue the light wash down the tube. Do this process for the length of the tube. Set the vertical standing tube on a paper towel or rag to capture excess wash and pastels. Allow this to dry for approximately 20-25 minutes.
3) Apply a light wash coating of Rust-All Deadflat to the tube at random working down the tube while holding the tube vertical to allow the Deadflat to run down the tube. Allow this to dry for approximately 30 minutes with the tube in a vertical position.
4) Apply a light dusting of the ground soft pastel rust colored mix to the length of the tube.
5) Apply a light dusting of brown umber ground pastel to the length of the tube.
6) Apply a wash of Rust-ALL solution, allowing the solution to flow down the tube length. Allow this to dry for approximately 20-25 minutes.
7) Apply a wash of the Rust-all Deadflat, allowing the solution to flow down the tube length, top down. Allow to cure dry, approximately 24 hours.
8) Apply a light dusting of the Soot Black weathering powder to the top of the stack, dusting powder on the inside of the tube along with a bit of the powder on the top outside edge.
9) Set the weathering powder with a small amount of the LifeColor Smoke paint, both on the tube interior and exterior. Set aside to cure dry.

Color the aluminum (tall) tube:
1) Apply a medium-heavy dusting of the rust colored ground pastel mix at random on the tube.
2) Apply a wash of Rust-All rust solution, allowing the solution to run the length of the tube, top down. Use the brush if needed to lightly apply additional wash if the solution does not want to cover a given area of the tube. Make sure to have the wash run down the tube via gravity, do not paint or brush the solution onto the tube. Allow to dry for approximately 20-25 minutes.
3) Test fit the tube and determine where the stack will appear just above the mill roof line. Make a light scratch mark approximately a scale 4-5 foot above the roof line. Remember, there will be a tar seam once the stack is mounted into the roof, and you will want the soot lines just above the tar seam.
4) With a soft #2 brush, lightly stipple a small band of the Dust Bowl Brown weathering powder around/over the scratch mark making a color band on the tube.
5) Apply a light dusting (do not stipple) of the Ash weathering powder. Use the tapping of a loaded brush just above the color band to apply the dusting of ash.
6) Apply a second wash of the Rust-All rust solution, again allowing the solution to run down the length of the stack. Allow to dry for approximately 20-25 minutes.
7) Apply a wash of Rust-All Deadflat, allowing the wash to run the length of the stack, top down. Allow to cure dry, approximately 24 hours.
8) Apply a small amount of Soot colored weathering powder to the top of the stack, both interior and a small band on the exterior.
9) Set the soot weathering powder with a bit of lightly diluted Smoke paint, pulling the diluted paint and weathering powder down for about a 1/4 inch on the exterior. Set aside to cure dry.

Mount the stacks:
1) Apply a small blob of Liquid Leading to the holes where the stacks will be mounted.
2) Slip the stacks into the holes to the desired depth.
3) Add a small amount of Liquid Leading to the stack-roof seam if needed.
4) Use a small pointed object which is damp with water to smooth the tar seam around the stack base. Make sure that the stacks are vertical when sealing the seam and allowing the stacks to dry in position. I used the scrap balsa foam 'holder' shown earlier to hold the stacks vertical in the roof while the Liquid Leading dried. Allow to cure dry, approximately 24 hours.



Well, I'll be returning with additional information of the saga of the skylights in my next update.

Again, thanks for taking the time to visit. Please feel free to ask questions and make comments on the above techniques. Remember, I'm posting from memory, so I reserve the right to make changes if I find my notes later and I missed a step.

EDIT: 5/5/2016
I just noted that I had mislabeled the coloring sequence of the two tubes. I have corrected so that the correct coloring sequence is matched to the correct tube. I apologize for any confusion.


-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 05/05/2016 12:31:53 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6950 Go to Top of Page

TRAINS1941
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 05/03/2016 :  5:42:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kris thanks for the update. Looking back at the stacks they really do have a nice rusting effect not overdone.

Jerry

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." A. Lincoln

Country: USA | Posts: 9184 Go to Top of Page

Ray Dunakin
Fireman



Posted - 05/06/2016 :  12:08:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit Ray Dunakin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I really like the colors on the smokestacks!


Country: USA | Posts: 3010 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 05/06/2016 :  07:36:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Kris,

I'm impressed by the way the stacks turned out. They feel hot just to look at them.

You achieved a nice variability along each one and between them. Excellent.

The additional weathering you applied to the roof below the stacks and the skylights enhances both. Did you describe how you did that? If so I missed it.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Country: USA | Posts: 2273 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/10/2016 :  12:53:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,
Well, I was hoping to have a valid update for the skylights by now, but I'm still in the holding pattern as far as serious modeling goes due to access to the workbench.

So... I'll just respond to Mike's question on the mill roof weathering.

The mill roof weathering has not been completed. I still have about three more weathering 'passes' to make. The future blending of the roof coloring will blend the currently overdone streaking into the mill roof as a whole. Thus, the way over-the-top water streaking will not be anywhere as pronounced as it currently shows in the pictures.

The technique used to obtain the heavy soot-rust streaking below the stacks is really a simple technique. The trick is the tool, in this case, an angled shader brush. http://www.dickblick.com/products/robert-simmons-sapphire-angle-shader/

I used a small (1/4 inch) soft angled shader brush to apply a very light dusting of the same weathering powders and rust-colored pastel mix as applied to the stacks.

Simulate water runoff below the stacks:
Materials:
a) I used the same predominate pastel and weathering color(s) as was used on the stack above the streak.
b) Rust-all rust solution
c) Clear ETOH

1) Apply a very light streak of pastel/weathering powder about 1 inch down the roof from the stack base. You do not want to carry the streak all the way to the roof edge. The pastel streak is applied holding the angle shader vertical to obtain as thin of streak as possible.
2) Apply a very small amount of the predominate colored pastel/weathering powder color along with the rust-colored pastel mix to the base of the stacks.
3) Using a #2 or #3 soft round, apply just enough of the Rust-all rust solution to get a small drop of the solution to run from the base of the stack down the roof. It may be necessary to add small amounts of solution to keep the small liquid run going down the roof. The run only needs to go just past where the chalk streak ended.
4) Using the same soft round without cleaning, apply additional small amounts of clear ETOH to the stacks to further extend the liquid run towards the the bottom of the roof.
-- Use the point of the shader to tease the ETOH or rust drop over a seam edge if needed. Note where the drop becomes largest and appears to be trying to flow over the seam edge. The seam edge from damaged paper may take the natural downward flow off a straight vertical path by quite a distance, but go with it.
5) Allow the ETOH application to dry for about 10 minutes, but add the next rust solution application while the existing downward flow pattern is still damp.
6) Using a small soft round brush and applying from the backside (upper roof side) of the base of the stacks, apply just enough Rust-all solution to obtain a small streak of rust flowing from the stack base down the roof. Apply a bit of clear ETOH every few brush loads of rust solution. Allow this to flow down the roof to the eve.
7) Tease a bit of the rust solution down the fascia face and down the side of the wall. Use the angled shader held vertically to apply additional rust solution followed by clear ETOH if needed to produce a light rust colored water stain down the wall face below where the streak comes off the roof.


-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 05/10/2016 12:59:04 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6950 Go to Top of Page

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/10/2016 :  12:57:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm a big fan of angled shader brushes!

dave



Country: USA | Posts: 6200 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 05/29/2016 :  09:13:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
EDIT 5/29/2016: Added link for power/utility pole construction thread to page 1.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 05/29/2016 1:33:41 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6950 Go to Top of Page

TRAINS1941
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 07/05/2016 :  1:52:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do I see someone lurking??

Maybe a new update will be coming forth.


Jerry

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." A. Lincoln

Country: USA | Posts: 9184 Go to Top of Page
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