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 New York Mill - Modeled in Balsa Foam
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deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 06/22/2015 :  2:05:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The large nearly flat section looks like 4x8 sheets of corrugated iron. Not sure what's on the steeper sections, slate or wood shingles?

dave



Country: USA | Posts: 6201 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 06/22/2015 :  3:49:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Bob and Dave.
Dave - I have scheduled a meeting with the Colorado School of Mines library (Arthur Lakes Library) Manager of Special Collections later this week. Maybe I'll be able to identify additional information after seeing some more pictures. Never know where these research outings will lead.


-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Country: USA | Posts: 6951 Go to Top of Page

jeyjey
Engine Wiper



Posted - 06/22/2015 :  7:10:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kris,

Just a thank you for posting this thread. After reading it I tried out balsa foam for a DSP&P bridge abutment, and it's come out well so far. Next up are a couple of trestle foundations....

Cheers,
Jeff.


Modelling the D&RGW and C&S in HOn3.

Country: Ireland | Posts: 365 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 06/22/2015 :  7:59:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Taking the time to slowly read, absorb and catch up....Wow! Kris, good Work. I love the sign. It looks great. Like a painted sign.
As far as the weathering on the chutes,I honestly don't study mining in that much detail especially in color to really know but to me the "new"
weathering looks like the product of a liquid (dirty radiator water actually)run off while the early efforts just looked dirty.
Go for the flume. I actually want to see you build that retaining wall though (I need a few of those myself).
Please keep up the fine work and excellent teaching.


It's Only Make Believe

Bob Harris

Country: USA | Posts: 4129 Go to Top of Page

Ray Dunakin
Fireman



Posted - 06/22/2015 :  11:12:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ray Dunakin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I really like the configuration of the mill in that prototype photo. It has a lot of interesting lines/shapes. I also like the way the track sits on a narrow, cribbed-up strip.



Country: USA | Posts: 3010 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 06/23/2015 :  06:48:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As always, thanks all who have taken a moment to see what's going on in this thread.

Jeff - I'm really pleased to hear that you choose to use balsa foam to fabricate the bridge abutments. The fact that I was able to coax one person into giving balsa foam a try makes this entire thread worthwhile to me. Please feel free to post a picture (or a few pictures) of your work along with your thoughts on using and coloring the balsa foam in this thread. I'm sure others, along with myself, are interested in seeing your work and hearing your take on balsa foam.

Ray - Glad you like the photo. Will we see something similar in the garden scale running by a steam soon?

Bob - Thanks for the input. I can for sure see the 'dirty radiator' staining/coloring. You are correct in that the coloring is a bit strong, but I wanted to draw the eye from the reds which I overdid earlier, and as you know, reds are nasty to tone down or remove. I understand that often the ores were pretty wet when delivered to the mills. In fact, you can see in the prototype introduction pictures linked on initial post that the Gilpin Tram (2 foot gauge) actually pushed ore cars into the mill to be unloaded. But often in the cold weather, the cars where placed in the structure to allow the ore to thaw-out enough to be shoveled out of the ore cars. So the ore staining on the chutes would resemble some 'water' staining. As for the coloring, I think your comment/thought is fairly accurate, but the ores were often a yellow-tan hue. The strong yellow-orange which I have more often shows up in the mills tailings piles and was a result of the chemicals used in processing the ore.

The retaining wall would/will be super-simple using balsa foam. I'll probably use the soft foam, but either density will work. Prior to starting however note that the timbers have square, not round anchor ends sticking out between the long timbers making up the retaining wall. Look closely at Cameron's first picture on page 4 as well as the photo of the Penn and Iron City mills. Round timbers could be used, but I just wanted to point out how it appears to have been done in the Clear Creek area.

The process will go basically like this:
1. Cut foam to dimensions needed to form cribbing along stream/river.
2. Texture/Rough up long cribbing timbers with wire wheel or brush.
3. Cut cribbing components to length from stock.
4. For the anchor ends, rough up the end of a stock strip and then cut to about 1/4" length. Only one end of each anchor will need to be textured. Repeat as needed to obtain the number of anchor ends required. (You may want to do this step after making the anchor impressions in the foam so that you know exactly the number of anchors required.)
5. Color/Stain your cribbing timbers/dowels and anchor ends. I'll probably be using Silverwood, a Medium A-I wash and maybe a bit of Brownwood. (See http://www.builders-in-scale.com/bis/parts-weather.html for Silverwood and Brownwood.)
6. Carve/texture stones into foam.
7. Make sure to soften carved/textured stone edges with a stiff brush to represent the rounded stone from water erosion as the final carving/texturing step.
8. Press bottom long cribbing member(s) into foam to depth desired. The timber/dowel will set into the foam, forming a pocket/impression for the timber/dowel. A tool edge, like a ruler/small drafting triangle may be useful in helping set the entire timber/dowel length to the same depth. (NOTE: Do this, and the next step, prior to applying Gesso or coloring the stones.)
9. Press impressions for the anchors into the next 'row' above the set timbers/dowels in the last step. I'll just use a stick of strip wood stock the same size as the anchors to create the impressions, making sure that the 'anchor' sits against the cribbing below it.
10. Repeat steps 8 & 9 as needed. When placing the cribbing timbers, make sure that there is no space between the cribbing and anchors in the 'row' below.
11. Remove cribbing timbers/dowels from foam.
12. Prime foam with Gesso (Optional, but it will help in sealing the foam from any 'water' such as Envirotex or other product.)
13. Color the foam with the color which will represent wet ground in your setting. I'll be using a dark umber. This will also bring out shadows in the stones.
14. Color the stones letting the wet ground 'mortar' show between stones. (ie: paint as one would paint a stone structure wall with mortar.)
15. Glue cribbing timbers into preformed/embossed pockets.
16. Glue anchor ends into pockets with textured ends exposed. It may be necessary to use a tool of some sort to get all of the anchor ends to extend from the cribbing by the same height. I'll probably just lay a 4x4 on top of the cribbing and set the anchor ends to be about flush with the 4x4 face.
17. Glue cribbing into place on layout.
18. Pour water.
All of this may sound like a lot of work, but you can probably fabricate a foot of HO cribbing wall (minus stone carving, painting / component staining and water pour) in about the time it takes to read this post twice.
Let me know should you have any ideas or questions on the process.

As I agree with Dave that the flat roof is metal, I'm starting to consider the coloring. I'm thinking of the 'blue haze' roof with more of a rusted roof under the flume enter the waterwheel house. Below are pictures of the two colorings from prior models I've posted. As I've posted the techniques and colors, I should be able to reproduce the coloring.



Your thoughts and ideas are welcome, so please feel free to comment.


-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 06/23/2015 06:57:43 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 6951 Go to Top of Page

deemery
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 06/23/2015 :  09:38:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
KP, if you have a military focused hobby shop, it would be worth looking at the various metallic colors they have in Vallejo and Model Master lines., I particularly like the Model Master "Jet Exhaust" color as a starting point for weathered metal, it has a bit of a dirty brown starting point. See http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tes/tes1796.htm

The top photo looks a little too blue to my eyes (but that could be an artifact of lights and photography.)

Another interesting color to think about for a starting point is Payne's Gray artist color.

Also, Pan Pastels has some metallic colors, including a pewter color, that could be an interesting starting point.



Country: USA | Posts: 6201 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 06/23/2015 :  10:42:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Kris,

It's Only Make Believe

Bob Harris

Country: USA | Posts: 4129 Go to Top of Page

jeyjey
Engine Wiper



Posted - 06/23/2015 :  2:19:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's a quick picture of my bridge abutment (with gesso), and 3 trestle foundations (not yet primed).

A few observations:

  • The South Park stonemasons kept some pretty tight mortar joints -- for this style stonework I found it easier to dimple the wall first, and then carve the joints after.

  • This is the "soft" balsa foam, carved with a dental pick. I was a bit worried that it wouldn't be hard enough to support a trestle/bridge, but the gesso firms it up nicely.

  • Speaking of gesso, I had concerns it might fill in the fine joint lines too much, so I thinned it about 25% with Liquitex pouring medium. In the end it wicks in pretty well, so it's possible the thinning isn't required.

  • This stuff is super easy to carve. I used to avoid stonework; now I find myself looking around for other places to add some. ;)




Cheers,
Jeff.


Modelling the D&RGW and C&S in HOn3.

Country: Ireland | Posts: 365 Go to Top of Page

silveradonorthern
Crew Chief

Premium Member


Posted - 06/23/2015 :  9:38:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kris,

I've been fallowing your project silently from the beginning. Balsa Foam seems to be a very interesting medium to work with. I'm going to have to give it a try sometime.

As always your SBS tutorials are simply the best. You have a true talent both as a modeler and a teacher. Keep up the great work

As your project moves forward I become more anxious to see the finished model. I'll continue to fallow along.


Michael

Country: USA | Posts: 663 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 06/23/2015 :  10:13:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A VISIT TO THE POLAR STAR MILL

Well, this week is turning out to be a bit of a 'research' week. Today I took a quick trip up to Black Hawk to make sure the Polar Star was not flooded as the creeks are running high currently. Tomorrow is a meeting with the Colorado School of Mines librarian in charge of Special Collections for some historical picture research on the mines and mills up Clear Creek.



I was just going to snag a few reference pictures for colors and check out the creek, but then things got interesting. The owner of the mill, Kirk Blake, was in the Polar Star and took some time out to allow me access and tell me a few things about the mill. The mill has been in his family since the 1930's, and he is a native of Black Hawk, so we had a lot to discuss. (Note: I'm a native of Boulder, about an hour away.) As I was not prepared for field notes, Kirk invited me to return later to take additional notes and photos as needed when I do my model of the Polar Star. So, in a caption-picture format, here is a overview of the visit today.


The upper left corner of the mill sits on bedrock. The mill floor was bedrock. Apparently they did not pour a bunch of concrete during the construction of the mill.

The large doors were added by Kirk's father in the 30's. The Grayhound bus station was run out of the retired mill. I *think* Kirk stated that the buses used to pull into the mill for passengers. What caught my attention was that the doors were not there when the mill was served by the C&S and Gilpin Tram. ("3-rail" as Kirk called it.)


Looking down the wall where the ore chutes were located. Note the timber header into which the chute hardware was attached. The mill used to have iron chutes which were raised/lowered and connected to hardware in the timber.


Something for size perspective. I'm a 6 foot man with medium-large paws.


The 2 inch bolts on the inside of the mill holding the hardware. Note the inside of the wall is about the same as the outside. Per Kirk, walls are constructed by dry stacking two walls, applying the mortar and then using a fill between the two walls.


At one time the mill was water powered. This is where the flume entered. Delivering water via flume to power the mill failed, so the waterwheel was powered by a under shot.


Turning around 180 degrees and about 15 yards away was this flume support. When the flume failed to power the mill, they ran a 2 foot pipe under the ground from here into the mill to provide water to the waterwheel, which I suspect was at least 40 foot in diameter. It must have been something to have a large stream of water running through the middle of the mill as the waterwheel was located almost in the center of the mill.


The required 'selfie', just to show that I'm not too far out of touch.. Actually, what I found interesting was the hardware on the bottom window sill.


How about a wooden extension instead of a stone extension like the New York? This has always been wood. This is, of course, fairly new siding. (Sorry, forgot to get the age of the siding which would have been interesting.)


How about a bit of mining stuff, stamp cam shaft/flywheel, steam pressure tank and other assorted goodies...


A wood shed out back. The creek is just to the right. Hummm... some coloring ideas for the New York roofing?


I love the color variation in this wall... but this camera can't do clouds.


Well, creeks not over the banks... Compare this shot to Cameron's first picture to get a feel for where I'm standing. Yep... square timbers, but maybe the anchors extend more than 4 inches... more like 6 inches. Bob... this was for you.


Looking down the creek side wall.


Door header does not extend into wall same distance as window sills.


Retaining wall showing color of stones used in walls more clearly.


Some of the structural stuff. The waterwheel was located about where the wall is located.


A wonderful old sign on a barn door from an old business down the street prior to the modern age of casinos.


Finally, the man... I want to thank Kirk for his time and willingness to share his stamp mill with us. I explained to him the forum and some of the questions and issues we modelers face. He has a true interest in our modeling goals. I truly enjoyed the visit and look forward to my next 'field trip' to the Polar Star.


NOTE: For those interested in more pictures and information about the Polar Star Mill, along with some pictures of a wonderful model of the mill, see the couple of pages here:
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=4599&forum_id=17&page=5
A outstanding model is the last picture on page 5.

Finally, coming back down the Clear Creek canyon I noted some soil colors which may produce some of the yellows (I'm actually really liking the color name "dirty radiator water") on the sleepers. Just a 'maybe'....


-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Edited by - hon3_rr on 06/23/2015 10:21:20 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6951 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 06/23/2015 :  10:30:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Michael... Wondered where you were!! Hope this finds you well. Thanks for the complements and for following along. Just a heads-up, but I'm planning on returning to our 'Tale of Two Mines' project when I complete this build. Are you still doing the large scale stuff? Any pictures? Looking forward to seeing what you've been up to.

For those interested, the dormant build thread I'm referencing is here: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31999


-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Country: USA | Posts: 6951 Go to Top of Page

Ray Dunakin
Fireman



Posted - 06/24/2015 :  01:32:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit Ray Dunakin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Great pics and info, thanks for posting it!



Country: USA | Posts: 3010 Go to Top of Page

jeyjey
Engine Wiper



Posted - 06/24/2015 :  11:54:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So today I discovered the greatest thing about balsa foam.

I was looking at some picys:


(http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/41717/rec/8)

and realized I forgot the capping stones (and my stones are a bit out of scale, being somewhat small). Normally I'd try to add the capping stones on top, fiddle the bottom of the wall, and try various other bodges.

But I've only got an hour or so in the abutment. So I just carved up another one:



Cheers,
Jeff.





Modelling the D&RGW and C&S in HOn3.

Country: Ireland | Posts: 365 Go to Top of Page

silveradonorthern
Crew Chief

Premium Member


Posted - 06/24/2015 :  10:30:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kris,

Send me a PM with your current email addy.

I tried to send you a PM through the forums and got no answer.


Michael

Country: USA | Posts: 663 Go to Top of Page
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