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Author Previous Topic: Small Layout Design Help/Challenge - c.1905 Pennsy Topic Next Topic: forced perception question
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CavalryTrooper25
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/28/2015 :  10:33:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just a tip for consistent grab irons appropriate for our general time period. As dumb as it may sound, I have very good luck taking used staple, and straightening the part that curled under to hold the papers, then drilling holes to match. The common staple is about equivalent to a half inch, which is almost identical (scale wise) to the standard PRR grab iron of this time period.

Give it a try.

Horse




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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 06/28/2015 :  12:50:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Horse,
A 1/2 inch is about 4' in HO scale. The Standard PRR grab iron was 4'? Most folks were using about half that.


It's only make-believe

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CavalryTrooper25
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/29/2015 :  09:01:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob;

Based on the Westerfield, and BTS kits of the XA, and XL series box cars, yes. 4 foot is slightly long, but not by much. If you look at the pics of my cars elsewhere in this section, you will see what they look like with the "staple" grabs.

I don't use them everywhere, but on the sides, and ends, and as the single grab at the top of the ladder on the end.

Horse




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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 06/29/2015 :  9:30:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Horse,

In the case of these cars, the sides are only 30 " high, so the grabs are obviously less than that. In fact, I did some measuring from a photo and a little math (boy was I lucky in having some really good math teachers in high school!) and found them to be about 21" in length.

Since more than enough brass wire is supplied in the kits I didn't need to appeal to my cheap nature and resort to staples. Also, I suspect I can make two bends in wire and cut the two legs to appropriate length as quickly as I could unbend a used staple and trim to fit.

Meanwhile, all grabs are finished and I've moved on to the eight supplementary stake brackets on each side used for carrying high loads such as lumber. Pictures in a day or two.

Mike



_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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CavalryTrooper25
Crew Chief

Posted - 06/30/2015 :  08:58:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike;

Looking forward to them!

Horse




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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 07/01/2015 :  9:37:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Photos and a PRR car diagram don't agree on the number of stake pockets on each side--8 in photos, 12 in the diagram--but I went with the photo evidence, knowing that diagrams can be off in the details. The results:



I used the Tichy stake pockets supplied in the kits, truncating each to about 2/3rds. But first I dressed each by smoothing off the back a little with an emery board; there's a little bump on each flange left behind when removed from the sprue. I want a completely flat surface to contact the side so that glue holds them firmly.

Today I installed queenposts and trussrods with turnbuckles on one car. Hard to see in the photo.

Tomorrow truss rods for the other car, then brake wheels and corner steps remain.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 07/01/2015 :  10:03:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With eight you can skate and look good at It.
The card are looking very good.


It's only make-believe

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CavalryTrooper25
Crew Chief

Posted - 07/02/2015 :  1:08:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't recall who I was talking to at the time, but he told me that the diagrams are what was produced by the draftsman, and the engineers in an office. The actual builders, and repairers tended to know what was actually needed a bit better than office weenies, so while the "official" diagram says one thing, the photographic evidence is always more reliable.

Horse




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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 07/02/2015 :  5:39:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
With these cars even photos can be a problem. I believe they were used for some time, and I think I am looking at GE cars. But alterations seemed to have been made over time, including air brakes and I think end(s) that could be lowered or removed or something. I'm not a Pennsy expert so I only have pictures to go by.

But that's part of the fun.

Mike
_________________________________________



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Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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CavalryTrooper25
Crew Chief

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  09:59:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't get me wrong, I love Bob's site, with all the diagrams. http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=&sz=sm&fr=

It has provided answers, and inspiration on numerous occasions, but like any "blueprint", it must be taken with the understanding that the boys in the shops did what worked, not necessarily what was on the paper.

Horse




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railman28
Fireman



Posted - 07/03/2015 :  12:03:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CavalryTrooper25

Don't get me wrong, I love Bob's site, with all the diagrams. http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=&sz=sm&fr=

It has provided answers, and inspiration on numerous occasions, but like any "blueprint", it must be taken with the understanding that the boys in the shops did what worked, not necessarily what was on the paper.

Horse





And often Diagrams were used only by the procurement boys to try and make sure they have enough casting and wood on hand for repair and to estimate value for taxes


It's only make-believe

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CavalryTrooper25
Crew Chief

Posted - 07/04/2015 :  3:08:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

And often Diagrams were used only by the procurement boys to try and make sure they have enough casting and wood on hand for repair and to estimate value for taxes



Ah yes, the almighty tax man! And let us not forget the insurance man as well.

Horse




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CavalryTrooper25
Crew Chief

Posted - 07/05/2015 :  9:11:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Accidentally went back to the first page of this thread, and it jogged my memory. Has anyone ever built one of the BTS "Conductor's car" kits?

Reason I ask, is that in an old book about the early years of the PRR, there is a reference to a hand written memo from 1869, asking about the "overhaul" work on the old Army cabin cars. At the time (about twenty years ago) it really didn't mean anything to me, but upon stumbling onto the BTS site, and finding his Conductor's car kit, it made a light go off in my once fertile mind.

That lightbulb, and the ringing in my ears made me think, so I did some research (about four, or five years ago now), and in 1867 the War Department began to sell off the old USMRR equipment, left over from the war. It was decided that the government wouldn't need most of it anymore, since the Confederacy had not risen again, and the decision was made that northern, and mid atlantic states railroads that had been overwhelmed by the shipping demands of the war, should get first crack at buying the now surplus equipment. PRR, being one of them, did buy some equipment, mostly tools, rolling stock, and rail. A few locomotives that went mostly to western region subsidiaries. But, apparently they got about 100 of the USMRR Conductor's cars which served as the first "standardized" cabin car on the line, although it never got a PRR designation, not having been a PRR design. The concept apparently worked sufficiently well, that as they needed more cabin cars, they rebuilt other old house cars, of non PRR standardized manufacture into similar cabin cars. It was sometime in the late 1870s that the first of the four wheel (bobber) designs with a cupola was produced by PRR, and it wore the first PRR cabin car designation, NA. N being PRR designation for cabin cars, and A being the first one. PRR continued into the ND class, before changing to a numeric class, with the N4.

So, anyway, has anyone ever built one of the BTS Conductor's cars?

Horse




Edited by - CavalryTrooper25 on 07/05/2015 9:14:54 PM

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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 07/05/2015 :  9:33:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Horse,

No. However, I've built one of the BTS radial roof Civil War cars, several of the BTS B&O M-2 boxcars and about a half dozen of the PRR XA boxcars. They are all nice models. I believe the conductors car is a modified peaked roof Civil War boxcar using what little information is available. I've seen similar cars in photos but not necessarily PRR.

Mike



_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Country: USA | Posts: 4126 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 07/06/2015 :  12:38:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Horse, Ive built about a dozen of BTS civil war /1870 car kits but not the Conductor's cars. His kits are excellent. Easy to build, easy to modify.


It's only make-believe

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