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Author Previous Topic: shelf layout composition Topic Next Topic: Wednesday Night Ops on the CL&W
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rca2
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/05/2017 :  10:33:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rwproctor

Rob,....I am modeling the WMRY from Hagerstown to Port Covington (PC)(Baltimore) from 1945-1953ish....the WM ended its eastbound line at PC....So what I am looking for is some guidance on the yard design....


The question left in my mind is what functions do you want to accomplish at the yard. From what your post, you want 1) arrival and departure tracks, 2) some way to turn trains (at least a run around for the caboose and engine), and 3) probably some place to store cars to support unloading and loading operations. Besides engine service, a RIP track would be nice.

That leaves some questions in my mind. My assumption is that the cars would be taken from PC to a classification yard at another location rather than be classified here. But maybe not. So my first thought is whether PC is a classification yard? My other assumption is that you want to have a dedicated PC switcher. So will you have a yard/wharf switcher based at PC?


Modeling Arizona Eastern Railroad, Hayden Junction (1920), in On30

Country: USA | Posts: 409 Go to Top of Page

robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 03/06/2017 :  05:28:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Rob,

Bob does asks some important questions that deal with what you want/need included and the function of the yard that must be considered before designing a yard. After looking at what you sent, I can also see some concerns with the designs you have proposed and how the yard will eventually be operated.

Since the placement of the helix is going to affect the yard design, I want to see how that interacts with the rest of the layout. So can you send a capture of both complete decks to show how all this fits in your available space?

Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Country: Canada | Posts: 661 Go to Top of Page

cajon
Engine Wiper



Posted - 03/06/2017 :  2:41:12 PM  Show Profile  Send cajon a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Here's a revision of your yard plan to reduce all the switchbacks & make switching flow better. It was done with Picasa so it is NOT correct per any CAD program. The intent was only to give some ideas for changes.

Download Attachment: pwproctor yard-revised .jpg
85.46 KB


Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA
LAJ/ATSF Modeler

Country: USA | Posts: 246 Go to Top of Page

rwproctor
New Hire



Posted - 03/06/2017 :  10:50:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob- Thanks for the input guys. Let me see if I can clarify some of your ?'s.

More or less the yard at PC as I see it will hold inbound (east) cars until they can be switched to the appropriate areas on the wharf. Any cars being unloaded or brought by car float w ill be assembled and taken outbound (west). Also you assumption about a dedicated switcher is correct, I figure a minimum of 2 switchers.

Rob - Someone on MRH actually said something that made me look at the yard differently. he said I was focused too much on the dock tracks, and not enough on the yard. So I erased the docks, designed the yard then drew in dock track were they would fit with the models I have. hence the design you see here.

As far as the upper deck design, it will have some towns to be switched, coal and lumber. it will be once around the room then back down the helix to around the lower level and back to PC. My thought here is a double track helix, with outside being westbound, and inside being eastbound. Unless I have it back wards. When I look at in 3D I may have an issue with clearance but I working through the elevations little bit at a time. When my "make a path" tool cant find its way around its frustrating because everything looks connected. But thats something I just need to learn how to do better.

So the design of the upper deck is nowhere set in stone, I figured it will take me a while to get it constructed so I have time to figure some things out.

I have attached the upper and lower deck as they stand designed right now.
Thanks again for all of your inputs, sometimes it takes another pair of eyes to see what is in front of me the whole time.

If you want I can send you the 3pi file, but like I said the elevations need some work, but I can run a train from top to bottom.
Rob P.

Download Attachment: Version 4 lower deck.jpg
63.27 KB

Download Attachment: Version 4 upper deck.jpg
50.76 KB



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robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 03/07/2017 :  05:19:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Rob,

Thanks for the additional info and the two screen captures. I also read thru the three pages of the MRH thread, and you did get some excellent advice over there. I now *think* that I have a good grasp on what you're trying to accomplish in the space and I will work on some ideas after I get home form work today. I will also send you a PM so you can send me the 3pi file. I am also willing to help you with any 3PI features you want to explore, but we can do that in emails instead of cluttering up this thread with info that not a lot of people can use.

Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Country: Canada | Posts: 661 Go to Top of Page

robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 03/08/2017 :  6:15:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Rob,

Thanks for the 3PI file.

I spent the last two days trying different designs for your space to give you a few more ideas. So far I have three versions that I attached and will briefly describe.

Version #1:

Version #1 includes a generic yard (its actually a prototype Canadian National yard near my home) along the walls instead of on the peninsula. This version gives you a lot longer mainline on the bottom level, a big receiving and classification yard, and lots of space for the waterfront that still has to be added to the design. The drawback of this version is that there would have to be a lift out in front of the door in the west wall. I have plans for the 2nd level that would make this a very interesting layout. As designed it includes 30" radius curves and #6 turnouts.




Version #2:

After designing version #1, I did a bit of research on your prototype and realized how massive these yards are, and how the wharf tracks are laid out. So version #2 gets a little bit closer to the prototype track arrangement. The tracks at the end of the peninsula would be the rotary coal dumper. This design also includes 30" radius curves and #6 turnouts.




Version #3

After checking your designs I realized that you were using 24" minimum radius curves and what looked like #5 turnouts, so I try again using these new standards and got even closer to the prototype track arrangement for the main yards. In version #3 the main yard and the rotary coal dumper switch places. This version has a lot of car storage, but would still have to be tweaked to make it all work.



Also note that both Versions #2 and #3 could also bridge the doorway on the west wall and use the space on the north wall, if that is an option for you.

Your thoughts?




For anyone not familiar with the prototype location, I am proving a few links to images that show the waterfront at Port Covington:

Piers #8 & #9

Overview of the Yards #1

Overview of the Yards #2

Rotary Coal Dumper #1

Rotary Coal Dumper #2

Track Diagrams of Yard

Map of the Area

Some Other Maps and Photos

Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Edited by - robchant on 03/09/2017 05:36:34 AM

Country: Canada | Posts: 661 Go to Top of Page

rwproctor
New Hire



Posted - 03/08/2017 :  10:00:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rob,

Great Ideas. Definitely like the where the helix is. Makes the layout more plausible, since there will not be a giant mountain within 2-3' of the yard tracks and docks area. Seems to be more than enough yard tracks. And if I need to I can fore go the round house, for a simpler engine terminal, but I do like the way it fits in, and PC did have one.

A couple of things to note. Right now I have a 14x14 room which would be the east side of the drawing with the bench work. I am adding another 16'-17' onto this room in the coming months, so the door on the west wall can actually be placed anywhere along the wall. I dont' know if that makes a difference.

I am using the following ships, one is at least 45" long,(Revell Flower Class Corvette) and I just ordered the Sylvan Lake Class Freighter. I also have a Sylvan open barge with cab, and a Frenchman Riverworks Covered barge kit. Plus Walthers tug, Frenchman RiverWorks Tug, and Walthers car floats. Although I may scratch build some as well.

I would like to include if possible, a local switching job on downtown warehouses from the yards, but that maybe too much to fit.

Looking good, thanks again,
Rob



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jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 03/08/2017 :  10:46:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I like the way Rob C's design gets a lot more track into the peninsula's area. But with two switchers working back and forth between the
dockside yard and the class yard inland of the engine terminal, I'd consider either double track between them or a yard lead. Would it
work to shift the engine terminal 2" down and make a lead along the edge of the benchwork? If this could be connected to the right-hand lead
of the class yard you'd get a wye, escape track and back door to the enginehouse all at once.



Edited by - jbvb on 03/09/2017 5:53:27 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 5101 Go to Top of Page

rca2
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/08/2017 :  11:54:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Awesome pictures and drawings Rob. What a job it must have been to run this complex. Absolutely huge.

Modeling Arizona Eastern Railroad, Hayden Junction (1920), in On30

Country: USA | Posts: 409 Go to Top of Page

railman28
Fireman



Posted - 03/09/2017 :  11:04:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rob, I must say, you really have a talent for layout design.

It's Only Make Believe

Bob Harris

Country: USA | Posts: 4177 Go to Top of Page

robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 03/09/2017 :  2:55:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rob: I am glad you got something out of my ideas. I am not sure what direction you will be taking from your reply, so I will wait until I know more from you.

James: It will be interesting to see where Rob goes with the design, and I hope he will take you input into account since your suggestions are valid.

Bob (rca2): I was also amazed at the size and complexity of the yards, and how they would be operated.

Bob Harris: Thanks for the kind words. The last 20 years of sketching designs has helped a great deal, and so has all the input I received to improve those designs on here.

Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Country: Canada | Posts: 661 Go to Top of Page

rwproctor
New Hire



Posted - 03/09/2017 :  7:01:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rob,

Lets and everyone else, work with #3. I was thinking about possibly doing a 18" wide shelf on the north wall and put the carfloat operation there with a connecting bridge in front of the door to the rest of the layout. then the rotary dump can be located on the waterfront.

James: I like your idea, esepcecially the track along the edge, and if the rotary dump gets located along the edge maybe beneficial for that as well.

Bob: yes the WM Port Covington yard was big. I only wish i would have seen it in its glory. Most activity ceased in the mid 70's. There is a cruise ship terminal just to the north of the old piers were. There is also two big cable laying ships berthed here that laid cable across the Atlantic.

Bob: I agree rob has an eye for this stuff. I have been staring at this area for well over a year and I keep getting stumped. But you know the more eyes the better, 100 people look at it and we might get 100 different variations.

Thanks again for everyone's input and Robs ideas on paper, er screen.

I want to get this done, my wife keeps laughing at me whenever a new box arrives or I talk about my layout.
Rob



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robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 03/09/2017 :  7:41:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Rob,

I am all for putting a shelf on the north wall, but to get there, the line has to cut thru piers #8 and #9, so that area will changed as well. Now that you narrowed down the choices, and gave me some idea how to proceed, I will see what I can do. I should have another draft soon.

Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Country: Canada | Posts: 661 Go to Top of Page

robchant
Crew Chief

Posted - 03/11/2017 :  07:34:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Rob,

I spent the last few days playing with the plan by bridging the west doorway and using the space on the north wall. As I expected, it was hard to keep the same configuration for pier #8 and #9 that I showed you in option #3 and put the car float along the north wall. However, I did come up with another option (#4) for your space that certainly adds a lot more possibilities. It also adds a lot more room for marine modeling which I think is just as important as modeling rail operations to you.

This is only a draft, and I still have to find a way to add a few more leads to the various yards, and get some input on the layouts of the yards. I also think I can get 1 or 2 more yard tracks in the main yard. I also have to add some other service tracks such as a caboose track, rip track, etc, to that area.

OPTION #4:



Your thoughts?

Take care,
Rob.


Rob Chant
Glace Bay, NS
CANADA

WEBSITE: http://www.railwaysofns.com/SLCRyCo/index.php
TREAD: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42599

Country: Canada | Posts: 661 Go to Top of Page

jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 03/11/2017 :  08:24:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As it stands, it looks like fun for two operators. If mainline trains are to come and go while the piers are being worked, I'd be tempted
to triple-track the curve between the Pier 4 yard and the crossover. But my thinking is partly driven by the double track main. If it's
more for looks than to accommodate a larger operating group, extra leads aren't so important.



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