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MarkF
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 06/14/2012 :  02:23:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bill! As it concerns the car fleet, that is actually something I really enjoy doing. There is so much to do when the gang comes over that 'assigning' them that task seems a waste. I will sit down and do two or three cars here and there when I'm not up for a big job. I find it relaxing!

As for the colliery, I've only started doing the research so to be honest, I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do. I've been collecting hoppers recently, both Reading and PRR. I have about 55 PRR hopper cars and about 40 Reading cars, but who knows, maybe I'll mix it up a little. The Reading did run along side of the facility on the prototype and I am modeling the Reading interchange in Shamokin. Gee, you've got me thinking now! Oh boy, I may need more hoppers!

I needed the Reading hoppers for the Pennsylvania Power and Light complex in Shamokin Dam. That facility burnt both anthrcite and bituminous. The Reading brought in the bituminous which on the layout will come in from the north from staging. The PRR brought in the anthracite from Glen Burn.

As for the complex itself, in starting the research about Glen Burn, I have come to realize that the complex itself is a lot larger than I originally thought. I do have the room to do it justice so we will see what I come up with. I will definitely keep you posted though!


Mark

Country: USA | Posts: 13072 Go to Top of Page

wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 06/14/2012 :  07:46:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
How much of Glen Burn do you think you can fit in, Mark? A lot of conveyors and an interesting Dorr Thickener! I found this photo for people who may be interested in seeing the prototype of the colliery.
http://www.coalregion.com/images/glenburn2.jpg

The Dorr Thickener is the round structure in the far left of the photo. It is used to reclaim fine coal particulates from water used in the mining process. I wish I had the space to model one, myself, since I think it is an interesting feature.

Chuck



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Harsco
Fireman



Posted - 06/14/2012 :  12:20:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wvrr

How much of Glen Burn do you think you can fit in, Mark? A lot of conveyors and an interesting Dorr Thickener! I found this photo for people who may be interested in seeing the prototype of the colliery.
http://www.coalregion.com/images/glenburn2.jpg

The Dorr Thickener is the round structure in the far left of the photo. It is used to reclaim fine coal particulates from water used in the mining process. I wish I had the space to model one, myself, since I think it is an interesting feature.

Chuck



Having seen the future site of Glen Burn, I can't imagine Mark not having the room for one. Jim Musser recently scratchbuilt a very nicely done Dorr Thickener; scroll down a little to find his blog entry:

http://mussersteelmill.blogspot.com/

I'm in the same predicament as you, Chuck...mills used to have them located near the blast furnace, but I really don;t have the room next to mine...




Edited by - Harsco on 06/14/2012 12:23:23 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 1320 Go to Top of Page

wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 06/14/2012 :  12:56:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Boy, that Dorr Thickener is fantastic! Thanks for the link, Rick. And, from Jim's notes, it is probably a little over 6 inches in diameter. I wonder if I have enough room for it, afterall. I would have to move the powerhouse, the planned wash house....

But, it is good to know that Mark has room for one, if he decides to build it. It is such an eye-catching structure.

Chuck



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MarkF
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 06/14/2012 :  1:40:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I'm glad to see you guys are all helping me with this difficult decision making process! Actually, maybe I should start a seperate thread on this as I imagine there are a lot of people out there who could and would contribute much information.

That picture is awesome Chuck! That's a perspective I had not seen before. It shows the roadbridge I plan to model and the western end of the town of Shamokin. I rode across that bridge a few years ago and needless to say, none of that is there anymore! The first obstacle I face is that my complex, as modeled, will have to be a mirror image of what you see. On my layout, the aisle is where the mountain is, and the branchline tracks, then the complex. I don't think that's going to be a big deal.

Next, while from what I can tell from the limited research I have done, most of the buildings remained in place into the 70's, much of what was there was not used in the late 60's when I model as the production was cut way back. Of course, as I mentioned before, that's where my modeler's license will come into play to some extent. Finally, I want to definitely capture the feel of the complex. As can be seen on your picture, there is a lot of depth to the complex and that is where I may have to sacrifice a little. I have the width, but not the depth I would need. The front part of the complex may have to be sacrificed to some extent, but first I need to learn what everything is that I'm looking at.

I just began reading the old set of articles that appeared in RMC a few years ago called Hard Coal. They go into a lot of detail, and I am lucky that they used Glen Burn as an example! So I'll start from there, but it appears I have a few people here on RRL that I can count on to fill in the many blanks I know I will have!


Mark

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Vagel Keller
Crew Chief



Posted - 06/17/2012 :  7:39:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit Vagel Keller's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Great progress!

A suggestion about your hopper fleet: You might think about WM and B&O cars, as well. In the Clarence Weaver films about the Ore Train and the S&L Local, which served the Shamokin Dam power plant, 2-bay hoppers from both of those roads show up hauling both Anthracite and Bituminous, the latter presumably via the Cumberland Valley Br. interchange with the BeanO at Martinsburg, WV and the WM at Hagerstown, MD. Interesting, though, to see hoppers from those roads being sent up to Shamokin for loading. Nevertheless, some interesting variety of road names there.

Vagel



Country: USA | Posts: 854 Go to Top of Page

MarkF
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 06/17/2012 :  10:32:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's great input Vagel! I apprecaite that. Yes, up until recently, I had figured you would only see PRR hoppers at the facility, but in viewing pictures I've come to realize that is not the case. I guess customers from other roads bought coal from Susquehanna Collieries, explaining hoppers from various roads? I'm not totally sure how that all works, but from an operations standpoint, it's going to be interesting!

Mark

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jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 06/18/2012 :  08:03:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Old railroaders on BM_RR@yahoogroups.com make it quite clear that the ARR Car Service rules were loosely interpreted, particularly during peak traffic months. So when an empty B&O or WM hopper returned via Scranton or Reading from NY or New England it would only get forwarded to its home road if there were enough non-per-diem (e.g. PRR in this case) cars on hand for immediate needs.

Jargon: Per-diem was the rent a RR paid to the owner for every foreign car on their line at midnight each day. It was the only real incentive to return empties to the home road. The rate was often set low enough that it was cheaper to use someone else's cars than buy your own, particularly for RRs that didn't have good credit. Inter-yard transfer operations and freight schedules got a *lot* more efficient when per-diem went hourly, but that wasn't till the 1970s IIRC (simple web search doesn't find the exact date).



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MarkF
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 06/26/2012 :  01:35:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another visit from the crew resulted in a lot of work completed tonight! Still most of the effort was room related, but the room is now quickly approaching completion! Last update showed the long awaited ceiling grid installed. Since that time I have installed most of the ceiling tiles, so tonight Bruce and Rick showed up to help me to install the wall angle that will be used to hang the valance from. The wall angle is nothing more than the same wall angle used to hang the suspended ceiling systems such as I have installed in the basement. We are attaching this to the ceiling grid with rivets and will then screw the Masonite panels to the wall angle. It is surprisingly strong!

Here is Bruce riveting the wall angle to the ceiling grid. We used a level to plum the layout edge to the ceiling so that the completed valence will follow the layout edge.



This shows the wall angle and how it is attached to the ceiling grid and follows the layout edge.



This view shows how we were able to curve the wall angle to follow the curving end of the peninsula.



This close up shows how the wall angle was cut about once every inch, allowing us to flex it around the ends of the peninsulas.



By the end of the night, we had installed all of the wall angle on the ceiling!

Notice how there are still some ceiling tiles missing. If you have been following along, you will recall that I still need the light from the fixtures mounted to the floor joists. I canít cover these up until I mount the valance and install the lighting for the upper level of the layout. And I canít do that until I install the backdrops for the upper level! So this is probably the last time you will see a shot of the entire basement in one picture!



The next projects are the backdrops for the upper level and to begin painting the ceiling tiles that are above the aisles black. The areas over the layout will remain white to reflect light onto the layout.

But alas, we havenít forgotten the railroad! In fact Rick and I have been talking about Glen Burn and what to do there. Rick has been Ďfutzingí around with making a Dorr Thickener for Glen Burn and brought over the start of this model.



I will let Rick explain what it is and what he did, but itís a great start! Notice the picture leaning against the wall. (Thanks Chuck!) If you look closely, the actual Dorr Thickener is in the left hand side of the picture. There are now several pictures we are using as references in an effort to build a facility that does Glen Burn justice. We canít do the whole thing, but we will make every effort to at least capture the flavor of the facility. More on that later!


Mark

Edited by - MarkF on 06/26/2012 01:38:59 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 13072 Go to Top of Page

wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 06/26/2012 :  06:20:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nice start on the Dorr Thickener! Rick, build two....

Chuck



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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 06/26/2012 :  08:22:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great progress, Mark.

I agree that if you start building the Glen Burn facility, a separate thread would bring greater input. For people following this thread, just include a post with the link to the new thread so that readers could jump there.


Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29462 Go to Top of Page

Harsco
Fireman



Posted - 06/26/2012 :  08:52:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wvrr

Nice start on the Dorr Thickener! Rick, build two....

Chuck



LOL....unfortunately I only have one 6" PVC coupling to work with, courtesy of Mr. Musser.
If you haven't caught up on the Dorr that he finished, here it is: http://mussersteelmill.blogspot.com/

I'm just annoyed there's no room to shoehorn one into Harsco...






Country: USA | Posts: 1320 Go to Top of Page

wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 06/26/2012 :  09:04:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Rick,

I had been checking his blog for updates, but haven't had a chance recently. Thanks for letting me know. I do hope you start a separate thread on this. I will send you some documents that I have collected over the years on Dorr Thickeners.

I keep looking at space on my layout for one. I know I will just have to do it. It is gnawing on me. I've even thought of building half of one and have a mirror against the backdrop. But how do you hide the mirror edges???

Chuck



Country: | Posts: 6192 Go to Top of Page

MarkF
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 06/26/2012 :  10:32:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Starting a seperate thread for the building of Glen Burn sounds like a good idea. I know there is a wealth of knowledge and information here on RRL that we can tap into. I will look forward to seeing and hearing what everyone will have to offer. Then the pressure will be on us to try to do it justice!

First order of business will be to install the remaining piece of backdrop over the helix, which I should have done in the next few days. This will finish that area and give Rick and I a clean slate to start working with.


Mark

Country: USA | Posts: 13072 Go to Top of Page

hunter48820
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 06/26/2012 :  4:56:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great update with pics, Mark. I really enjoyed it!! Looking forward to the next release!



Look out for #1, but don't step in #2!

Andy Keeney
Dewitt, MI

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