Railroad Line Forums - NMRA AP Civil Eng.Certificate "Support" Thread
Railroad Line Forums
Username:
Password:
Save Password


Register
Forgot Password?
  Home   Forums   Events Calendar   Sponsors   Support the RRLine   Guestbook   FAQ     Register
Active Topics | Active Polls | Resources | Members | Online Users | Live Chat | Avatar Legend | Search | Statistics
Photo Album | File Lister | File Library
[ Active Members: 7 | Anonymous Members: 0 | Guests: 102 ]  [ Total: 109 ]  [ Newest Member: buc45 ]
 All Forums
 Model Railroad Forums
 Model Railroad Construction
 NMRA AP Civil Eng.Certificate "Support" Thread
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Author Previous Topic: Carrie Creek Land Co. construction series Topic Next Topic: Franklin Junction Layout Progress
Page: of 9

steveb919
New Hire

Posted - 12/01/2014 :  6:57:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There has been a significant change in the merit award portion of the civil engineer AP certificate. The scratch building part remains the same. You must build the frogs and all other parts of the track work. Building the trackwork with Fast Tracks fixtures is allowed. Here is the BIG difference. You will earn 88 points if the trackwork meets NMRA gauge standards for all parts and you run a piece of motive power through the trackwork. That's it, period. You do not have to spike track to ties other than the ones need to hold the trackwork in gauge, no rail painting, ballasting, spikes, super detail etc. If you want more points go ahead and do all the extra work. The NMRA site does judging form does not reflect those changes but it will, at sometime, be up on the NMRA site. Make sure that when you are submitting the form you have the judges vouch that the gauging was correct and the motive power successfully ran through the trackwork.

Most judges are not aware of the change but the NMRA AP officials are.

Steve B.



Country: USA | Posts: 1 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/02/2015 :  8:18:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I have procrastinated long enough, so it is time to tackle the Civil Engineering Certificate. I actually have much of it done as I worked on the electrical, but I need to build my track work items and have them judges.

So, I sold off a few kits that I would never build and took that money and bought a Fast Track Dual Gauge (HO/HOn3) #6 Right Hand (meaning that the narrow gauge tracks are on the right) Turnout Jig, plus the Stock Aid Tool and the Frog Point too.

Yesterday, I cut, filed, and shaped all the track pieces that I would need to build the first three turnouts. Those will be two standard gauge HO #6 lsft hand turnouts to make a crossover, and a right hand HOn3 #6 turnout.

This is one set of all the parts needed.




And today, I built my first Turnout. That wheel set runs thru the turnout perfectly.



I still haven't put in the gaps to isolate the frog. I will do all those at the same time.

Actually, it was a nice change of pace.

Tomorrow I will try to knock off two and perhaps cut the parts for another turnout, just for the practice.


Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29828 Go to Top of Page

wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 03/02/2015 :  8:48:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
One of these days, I will do the same. But, right now I am focused on Structures. Looks good, Bruce!

Chuck



Country: | Posts: 6257 Go to Top of Page

Carrie Creek
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 03/02/2015 :  10:37:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bruce, that looks real good. Don't forget to gap the PC ties. When you do watch out for stray copper strands from the cladding. They will sneak up and short you out.

Phil Z
POR (press on regardless)

Country: USA | Posts: 1434 Go to Top of Page

George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/03/2015 :  12:05:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the world of hand laying, Bruce.

To follow up on what Phil said. I gap my ties then do a continuity check (stray copper strands) before I solder the rails. If you wait till later and have an electrical short, it can be a bear to find after all the soldering is done. I also think it's easier to cut the gap when the tie is standing alone.

George



Country: USA | Posts: 13845 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/03/2015 :  07:30:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, guys.

Phil & George, I have my i-Pad on the bench and I watch each of the Fast Track Video's as I do each step. Even though I've watched them several times before, I don't trust myself yet to not miss something like putting the gaps in the ties. I did use my continuity tester, too, George. It seemed like good insurance to make sure each gap was all the way through.

I'll do another one or two today.


Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29828 Go to Top of Page

Orionvp17
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 03/03/2015 :  09:40:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George D

Welcome to the world of hand laying, Bruce.

To follow up on what Phil said. I gap my ties then do a continuity check (stray copper strands) before I solder the rails. If you wait till later and have an electrical short, it can be a bear to find after all the soldering is done. I also think it's easier to cut the gap when the tie is standing alone.

George



I second George's comments, and agree with the others. Nice job so far. I cut the tie gaps first, then check for continuity, build the turnout and set it aside. Once I have several stacked up, I'll go cut the all-the-way-through rail gaps. Only then do the turnouts go anywhere near the layout. Only then....

Mostly. I goofed once, set the thing down for visual purposes, forgot the rail gaps that isolate the frog, and well.... let's just say it took awhile to find the short.

One cheap check on workmanship is to shove that truck and let it roll through the turnout on its own. Listen carefully. If you can hear it go through the frog or the points, you need to fix something. When it will roll through in both directions with no changes in sound, you have it nailed.

And from the "evaluator's" standpoint, before you paint and weather, clean up any excess solder on the rails with a Dremel tool (or similar) and a cutoff disk. Verrrrrrryyyyy carefully!

Nice job, Bruce! Welcome to hand-laying track!

Pete
in Michigan



Country: USA | Posts: 5387 Go to Top of Page

bitlerisvj
Fireman

Posted - 03/03/2015 :  10:41:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,
Just an FYI that some of the Civil Engineering requirements have been modified, but have not yet been publicized. As an AP Chair for our division, I was a bit surprised when one of my members asked about this. According to the AP Forms, the scratch built track components were to be judged as if they were structures, cars, or motive power. That is; the same categories, Construction, Detail, Finish and Lettering, Conformity, and Scratch built. Well, this is no longer required to make 88 points. The new requirement to get 88 points are as follows:
According to an email from Frank Koch, all that is needed is:
1. Track is built to and measured by the appropriate NMRAgauge.
2. Points and frogs built by the member.
3. Self-powered locomotive successfully traverses all possible routes.

However, Frank went on to say that if you wish to go for more than the minimum 88 points, go for the other areas and get full judging. Most folks going for MMR would likely not pursue the other areas, but if one was entering these track components in a contest, then yes, you would want as many points as you can get.
Regards, Vic B.



Edited by - bitlerisvj on 03/03/2015 10:42:20 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 1405 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/03/2015 :  12:46:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Vic,

When Steve published similar comments in December (look right before the post that I made yesterday (3/2/15), I contacted Frank and he said that there were no major changed made in the Civil Engineering area. So, if you have a copy of Frank's e-mail, I'd like to see it (email to me at bdeyoung@optonline.net)

Thanks.


Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29828 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/03/2015 :  5:35:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, turnout #2 is done and works fine with the wheel set test. I still have the prefabbed parts for the HOn3 turnout and tonight I will make another set of parts for a third HO turnout. Once those are done, I will turn my attention to the gauge separation turnout.

Here are the two that I have finished - both standard gauge HO.



Here is a shot of the dual gauge HO/HOn3 jig from Fast Tracks.


Download Attachment: FastTracksJigLarge.jpg
103.66 KB

As you can see, it is a little 'busy' with all the slots available, but it is extremely versatile, too.

Finally, before he passed in 2012, I Wolfgang Dudler, MMR, a member of this Forum, had sent me this photo of a gauge separation turnout that he had made. His continued on the straight route with dual gauge track, but mine will continue straight with standard HO gauge track. The rail where I have put the pink hash marks will have to disappear at some point.







Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29828 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/04/2015 :  08:32:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about the gauge separation turnout. I can just see derailments on the turnout when a narrow gauge train takes the straight route by mistake. Now I think that I will keep the dual gauge track continuing on the straight leg for a few feet past the turnout. It might even give me a place to shunt some narrow gauge cars during switching moves on the narrow gauge diverging route.

Still thinking...


Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29828 Go to Top of Page

Carrie Creek
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 03/04/2015 :  3:22:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bruce, The inside rail of the HOn3 does not need to have a point. Instead of going straight it should curve into the frog. The only point rail you need will be the one on the diverging rail (the bottom rail in your pic). You only throw a half point so to say, standard straight and narrow diverging.


Phil Z
POR (press on regardless)

Country: USA | Posts: 1434 Go to Top of Page

bitlerisvj
Fireman

Posted - 03/05/2015 :  11:42:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bruce,
I forwarded the entire email thread so that you can see my surprise as well as Charlie Flichman's. You can also see Frank's response.
BTW, Steve is the one who generated all of this.
Regards, Vic B.
quote:
Originally posted by Dutchman

Vic,

When Steve published similar comments in December (look right before the post that I made yesterday (3/2/15), I contacted Frank and he said that there were no major changed made in the Civil Engineering area. So, if you have a copy of Frank's e-mail, I'd like to see it (email to me at bdeyoung@optonline.net)

Thanks.





Edited by - bitlerisvj on 03/05/2015 11:44:31 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 1405 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/05/2015 :  12:21:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Vic. I'll check it out.

You can ignore the PM then.



Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29828 Go to Top of Page

ELK RIVER RR
Fireman



Posted - 03/06/2015 :  11:59:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bruce I have been watching your thread on turnouts and hope all the crew members look at all five pages because the other pictures of trackage makes you want to spend the day weathering ties, track ,and right of ways, thanks for all the photos. Tom


Country: USA | Posts: 2743 Go to Top of Page
Page: of 9 Previous Topic: Carrie Creek Land Co. construction series Topic Next Topic: Franklin Junction Layout Progress  
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Previous Page | Next Page
Jump To:
Railroad Line Forums © 2000-17 Railroad Line Co. Go To Top Of Page
Steam was generated in 0.62 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000