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 NMRA AP Cars Certificate "Support" Thread
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Author Previous Topic: Anybody recognize.... Topic Next Topic: Walthers Passenger Cars?
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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 11/16/2018 :  10:03:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joe,

If you go back to the early pages of this thread, you will get some links to car picture/plan sources.

You will also find pictures of all my cars starting on page 4 of this thread.

Really none of my cars were intended to represent a particular car modeled to exactness. In fact, in all my documentation, I begin by stating "This model was inspired by the following Photo" That sets the tone for the evaluators not to expect that the model is intended as an exact copy of the original. I do included photos to illustrate that my construction technique is prototypical, by showing actual cars built that way. See page 6 of this thread and my several posts on 3/21/2012 to see what this means in practice.

Joe, I've sent you a PM. Please check it out.




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Joe-SVL
Section Hand

Posted - 11/29/2018 :  09:18:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Joe-SVL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I've seen references to "Scratch building evaluation score" such as the following from the NMRA web site " The third element is the evaluation score for scratchbuilding which is a reflection of the quality/complexity/quantity of scratchbuilt parts (see matrix)". However I cannot find any pass / fail criteria such as the 87.5 score for Merit award judging. Also I didn't find the referenced matrix. Is there a passing threshold for the scratch building evaluation score, or how should I interpret the above quote from the NMRA web site?

thanks
Joe in Orlando



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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/29/2018 :  10:33:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Joe,

Check this out:

https://nmra.org/sites/default/files/2006-judging-guide-lines_0.pdf

Mike




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Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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bitlerisvj
Fireman

Posted - 11/30/2018 :  3:13:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Joe,
There are 5 items evaluated for the 87 1/2 (88) points. These are Construction, max of 40 points, Detail, max of 20 points, Conformity, max of 25 points,Finish & Lettering, max of 25 points, and Scratchbuilt, max of 15 points. If you add up all of these numbers they come up to a max of 125 points, so 87 1/2 points is not a bad bogey to go for. So, you can see that you do not need max of points to get the Merit award of 87 1/2 points. If you look at the Matrix pointed out in the previous post, you can see that the points are doled out in a combination of Complexity (how complex is the model) and how good a job was done in building it.
Just an FYI, that a lot of people seem to ignore CONFORMITY. That is a pretty easy bunch of points to lose out on. Some folks do not provide ANY documentation and suffer the lose of a Merit award of a very good model when they don't provide the first picture or drawing of a prototype to show that the model conforms to a prototype. You definitely do want to remember to attach a photo or drawing of a prototype that proves your model.
Regards, Vic B.



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bitlerisvj
Fireman

Posted - 11/30/2018 :  3:33:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Again Joe, I re-read your post and decided to also address the Scratchbuilt area for you. There really is no pass/fail for any of the areas, you can get zero for Scratchbuilt, but still get 87 1/2 points from the other areas. Keep in mind the Scratchbuild area is only 15 points, so I would not sweat it too much. But, yes, you do want to scratch build as much as you can. Also. be aware there is a limit of 10 points depending on what you did not scratch build. These items are listed in the Judging Guidelines for cars and structures. So you want to be aware of these items. Still it is better to purchase some items rather than scratchbuilding poor ones.
Regards, Vic B.



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Joe-SVL
Section Hand

Posted - 12/02/2018 :  11:31:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Joe-SVL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Mike and Vic for your detailed replies.

I sorta think I'm not expressing the quandary I have very well. I understand where/how the Scratch building matrix fits into the Merit Award scoring. But for the 4 cars that are not Merit Award judged, i.e. those which must be scratch built with >90% of the parts scratch built, what is the pass/fail criteria for the judges accepting each of these cars?

Thanks
Joe in Orlando



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Joe-SVL
Section Hand

Posted - 12/02/2018 :  11:40:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit Joe-SVL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Reporting mark change
I presently do not have any flat cars on my small layout. Also I am seriously considering using John Porter's detailed article in Model Railroader Oct 1977 ("Build a Pennsy flatcar from Scratch") to build one of my 8 cars. The photo of the flat car in his article shows the word "Pennsylvania" spaced out between 4 stake pockets on the side sill. How risky scoring wise would it be for me to replace "Pennsylvania" with "Susquehanna Valley Line" of "SVL" while keeping all the other car detail the same?

Joe in Orlando



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mwbpequod
Fireman



Posted - 12/02/2018 :  2:53:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joe-SVL

Reporting mark change
I presently do not have any flat cars on my small layout. Also I am seriously considering using John Porter's detailed article in Model Railroader Oct 1977 ("Build a Pennsy flatcar from Scratch") to build one of my 8 cars. The photo of the flat car in his article shows the word "Pennsylvania" spaced out between 4 stake pockets on the side sill. How risky scoring wise would it be for me to replace "Pennsylvania" with "Susquehanna Valley Line" of "SVL" while keeping all the other car detail the same?

Joe in Orlando



That should only slightly knock down your conformity score. Given that if the rest of your scores are adequate, you should be ok.

As a compulsive free-lancer, I routinely just accepted that as being a a category where my scoring would be low and concentrated on getting all the categories as high as possible.


To act in the world is the only way to understand it. In this life it is given only to God and his angels and poets to be lookers-on.

Country: USA | Posts: 1876 Go to Top of Page

Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 12/02/2018 :  4:14:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Joe,

As long as your model follows a prototype closely or adheres to standard practice the fact that you letter it for a freelance line should make very little difference in score.

Only four cars need to be judged. The others merely require a qualified witness to sign a statement that they are scratchbuilt, modified kits, or craftsman kits, i. e. super detailed. The NMRA regs define super detailed and who qualifies as witness. You might find talking to your division or region AP chair helpful.

When I started on the AP program not every model I did was given a merit award by judges, but these became my “other” models.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

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mwbpequod
Fireman



Posted - 12/02/2018 :  5:07:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
When I started on the AP program not every model I did was given a merit award by judges, but these became my “other” models.


Good practice here as well since that provides evidence of their being "witnessed". I entered a few of my structures in contests for judging not really worrying about their getting a Merit award as much as their being seen and then having paperwork and scores that they existed as part of my 12.


To act in the world is the only way to understand it. In this life it is given only to God and his angels and poets to be lookers-on.

Country: USA | Posts: 1876 Go to Top of Page

Joe-SVL
Section Hand

Posted - 01/28/2019 :  4:39:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Joe-SVL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am working on my first car, which is a flat car, and am following a wonderful article by John Porter from the Oct. 1977 issue of MR. I made the under frame from Northeastern Scale Lumber 1/32" basswood. I'm getting ready to install grab irons and am wondering how people secure them. And the same mostly will apply when I build a boxcar or caboose which requires ladder rungs. Do people bend the legs over 90-degrees on the backside of the car frame where the grabs are mounted as a means to hold them in place? My suspicion is that with styrene one might be able to CA the grab iron leg to the styrene provide the mounting hole is tight.

Thanks

Joe in Orlando



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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 01/28/2019 :  5:35:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Joe,

CA works to secure grabirons in wood as well as in styrene.

I don’t think doing as you suggest would look very neat and you want the underside to look good.

Mike


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me, as I go walking that freedom highway -- Woody Guthrie

Country: USA | Posts: 4683 Go to Top of Page

mwbpequod
Fireman



Posted - 01/28/2019 :  7:28:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I'm getting ready to install grab irons and am wondering how people secure them.


As Mike noted - CA will work fine as long as you drill reasonably accurate sized holes to insert them into. I will if needed 1st dip the end of the grab iron into Goo, insert that into the hole, then after removing the grab, add CA to it and replace it into the holes. Never had one fail yet.


To act in the world is the only way to understand it. In this life it is given only to God and his angels and poets to be lookers-on.

Country: USA | Posts: 1876 Go to Top of Page

Joe-SVL
Section Hand

Posted - 02/07/2019 :  7:02:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Joe-SVL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Air hose recommendations

I am proceeding fairly well on building my first car for thr Car Certificate. I am following a fine article by a John Porter in a March 1977 issue of MR wherein he described his process for building a PRR welded flat car. I am about to submit a Walthers order for items for this car and other stuff. What I'd appreciate is recommendations for what set of Air Hoses I should include in my order.

thanks
Joe from Orlando



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jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 02/08/2019 :  08:25:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I've used both plastic and brass castings from Cal-Scale. The plastic hoses are easier to fasten to a styrene carbody, but also easier to break.


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