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 NMRA AP Cars Certificate "Support" Thread
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George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/01/2012 :  11:50:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations on the Merit Award, Bruce.

The La Belle kit will be easier than scratch building, when you consider the windows are already cut out in the kit (you could use your cut and fit method you've used on structures) and the clerestory is already assembled. Of course, with scratch building, you're following your own instructions not trying to understand the manufacturer's instructions.

George



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wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 03/01/2012 :  1:16:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looks great, Bruce! Are you planning to clutter up that wide open deck with junk?

Chuck



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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/01/2012 :  2:43:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wvrr

Looks great, Bruce! Are you planning to clutter up that wide open deck with junk?

Chuck



It is just crying out for some good junk, isn't it?

I haven't glued any down yet in case I want to show it. If I show it and it has 'junk', I have to address a 'prototypical' way to secure the stuff. White glue or ACC just doesn't cut it.



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akimmons
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 03/01/2012 :  4:38:07 PM  Show Profile  Send akimmons an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Congratulations Bruce. You're almost there!
I have to admit, of all the AP Certificates, this one is the most intimidating, to me at least. I'll be following along with your progress.


Arnold Kimmons
General Manager
Royal and Edisto Railroad

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=49360

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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/01/2012 :  5:49:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Arnold.

It was intimidating to me, too. I'm glad that the HOn3 logging bug bit. The necessity of scratch building to get some 'eastern' rolling stock, and the 'funkiness' of those cars helped me get past my fears.



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JoebTX
Engine Wiper



Posted - 03/01/2012 :  10:48:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit JoebTX's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looks real good Bruce. Get that passenger car done and you will have the cars certificate.



Joe Batson MMR#475
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37549

Edited by - JoebTX on 03/01/2012 10:50:05 PM

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dnhman
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 03/02/2012 :  09:38:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep Bruce well done!! Like Arnold the rolling stock AP sends shivers down my spine,, I would take structures any time,,

Cheers!, Joe

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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/02/2012 :  09:54:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Joe & Joe.

Arnold & Joe C.: I suggest getting an old wood boxcar kit, add wire grabs, use grabs for the ladder, add a Tichy Westinghouse K-Brake set and you will be off to a good start. The K-Brake is a bit easier to model than the AB Brake set IMHO.




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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/21/2012 :  3:20:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Knowing that the issue of conformity often arises when models are judged, I thought that I would show my approach. Below is a copy of that part of the paperwork that addresses conformity. The model is my scratch built HOn3 gondola.

I tend to address the issue of conformity by asking a series of questions that heads off the questions that I think might arise in the minds of the evaluators. I then answer those questions in both pictures and words.

Part 3. Conformity

As mentioned before, the basic flat car is based on a 28í Carter Brotherís design. Evergreen Hill Designs made it clear that their kit was true to the prototype. My flatcar was made from a drawing and measurements I took right from that kit as I built it.

This side-by-side picture will show you how close the two are. Note: Some issues of Conformity (like the nature of the needle beams and type of queen posts) are addressed in the Construction Section of the Documentation.




Now, as to a few other questions of conformity, letís consider:

Did the shops of narrow gauge railroads really cobble together gondolas built on flat cars? Did they make them 5 boards high? Did the ends of the gondola always line up with a side stake? Did the end walls always end up the same height as the side walls? Were the end walls ever just supported by two vertical posts? Were vertical grab irons on the ends of the gondola prototypical? The following prototype photos will answer these questions.







These two gondolas, built by the Ďback shopí on flat cars, show the various options. Low side, high side; side boards even with a side stake, side boards extending beyond the last side stake; gondola taking the full length of the flat car, gondola leaving walking room at the ends.

Here is another car built from a flat car. Notice the vertical grab irons on the ends of the car and the fact that the stirrup steps are mounted to the bottom of the side sill, not to the sides as on the two gondolas shown.





These photos show that my construction follows prototypical practices on narrow gauge lines.

Note: If you are building an exact copy of a car for which you have a picture, it is easy - just include that picture. However, if you are building a car that does not match a specific prototype car, but reflects what you know to be prototype practices, then you have to search internet and print references to find the photos necessary to show the evaluator that you have followed those practices. With a little experience, you will be able to 'predict' the questions that the evaluators might have and head off those questions. The better you do that, the better your Conformity score will be.



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wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 03/21/2012 :  3:55:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Interesting approach, Bruce. Without actively participating in the evaluation of the model, you direct the judges attention to specific questions vs. formulating their own. Now, they probably still have their own, but this gets them in a mindset that I think is to your advantage.

Chuck



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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/21/2012 :  4:32:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Chuck. This approach has become my 'standard'.

Here is another tip for the documentation.

Use phrases like: "This model is inspired by a photo I saw of a _______ car." Then include the photo and add the clear disclaimer: "Rather than an exact copy, it is intended to represent a car that the company shop built...." or "Rather than an exact copy, I included the following design elements from the car in the photo:..."

A specific example from the documentation on my scratch built HOn3 caboose that is 'similar to' those found in the fleet of the Westside Lumber Company.

Part 3 Conformity

This small caboose is based on those of the Westside Lumber Company. Interestingly, these cabooses varied in a number of ways. Some had side windows, some didnít. Some had the cupola at the very rear of the caboose (the rear wall of the cupola was an extension of the rear wall of the caboose) and some had them near the rear, but not at the rear. My rendition is based on those with a side window and the cupola near the rear of the caboose, but not at the extreme rear.

This photo shows one with a side window and the cupola at the extreme rear. (Note the color is a generic freight car red, not caboose red.


Here I included a picture pulled off the net of a specific Westside caboose. I pointed out the color as not being 'caboose red' because I was not going to paint mine caboose red and I wanted to head off that question.

Next I include a picture of a version of the Westside Caboose from the Durango Press kit, and referenced it in my documentation:

This picture of the Durango Press model shows no side window and the cupola near the rear, like mine. The placement of the windows on both the cupola and the end walls of the caboose also varied from caboose to caboose. These cabooses were made up in the company shops. Note, too, that in some cases the brake wheel was on the front of the caboose and sometimes on the rear.

Note: These two photos, one model and one prototype were chosen to show the many variations of window, cupola, and brake staff locations on the fleet of Westside cabooses.

I then followed with the following comment in large, bold type:

My rendition is based on the dimensions and 8-wheel arrangement of the Westside Cabooses, but is not intended to represent any one particular Westside Caboose.

So, I headed off many questions up front - location of (and number of) windows, the position of the cupola, the position of the brake staff, and the fact that this little bobber had eight wheels.

Disclaimer: I realize that there are many prototype modelers who would rather replicate a particular prototype car as exact as they can. That is not my approach. I don't model the Westside Lumber Company, but wanted a short caboose. I needed to address the issue of conformity in to prototype practices in my rendition. That is all.

My version:




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George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/21/2012 :  5:01:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good advice, Bruce.

George



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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 04/05/2014 :  08:37:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My eighth and final car for the Cars Certificate is a scratch built combine in HO inspired by this photo.







It has a removable roof with interior detailing.






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CBryars2
Crew Chief

Premium Member


Posted - 04/05/2014 :  10:36:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit CBryars2's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bruce,

Thanks for posting this, very helpful. Working on car, Building, Author & Volunteer. The documentation seems to be one of my biggest hang-ups.

Cameron



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Joe-SVL
Section Hand

Posted - 04/18/2018 :  6:53:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Joe-SVL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bruce,

Thought I'd check in and make sure this forum is still alive as the last entry is from 2014 I believe.

Cars will be my 7-th certificate and I am starting with bated breath. I found the Civil and Scenery forum exceedingly useful and hope to make use the of the somewhat older data here.

First question - where to people go to get good dimensional data for a passenger car. Might as well start with the toughest Car to build

thanks

Joe Brann
Orlando, FL



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