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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/04/2019 :  7:46:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Joe,

A drovers caboose is not much more than a lengthened caboose. You could take plans for a regular caboose for height and width dimensions and then make it longer by doing something along the lines of what Martin describes, using the dimensions of a window.

Here’s a description of how one modeler modified a LaBelle kit to build a drovers caboose:

https://cwrailman.com/Drover%20Caboose/Drovers%20Caboose1.htm

Regarding conformity, your model can conform to an actual prototype or if freelance it can conform to standard practice.

Mike


_______________________________________
And we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashin' — Bob Dylan

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BurleyJim
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 11/04/2019 :  7:55:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joe-SVL

Interesting approach. Were your cars recently judged or were they judges a while ago. In my newness at this scratch building and scoring activity I thought that the judges gave a good amount of conformity and detail points from the associated matrices for a car whose documentation packages included detailed drawings/plans, pictures, research, etc. information.

Did you detail the inside of your drover caboose and if so did you make or purchase the items you placed inside both the drover's compartment and the conductor's compartment?

Joe in Orlando



Joe, check your PM inbox. I sent you one about 2 days ago.

Jim


Take the red pill

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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/04/2019 :  7:59:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
AMB makes a model for a Missouri Pacific drovers caboose, actually two different designs. You can check it out here:
http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm

An article describing the kits states that they were manufactured from drawings and photos in the publication of a Missouri Pacific historical group: http://www.mopac.org/modeling/60-caboose

Mike



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mwbpequod
Fireman



Posted - 11/07/2019 :  10:08:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joe-SVL

Interesting approach. Were your cars recently judged or were they judges a while ago. In my newness at this scratch building and scoring activity I thought that the judges gave a good amount of conformity and detail points from the associated matrices for a car whose documentation packages included detailed drawings/plans, pictures, research, etc. information.


Oh, I regularly do not the best in the area of Conformity, but I make it all up with high scores in the other 4 categories to get Merit awards. And, I generally make 15+ points in Conformity since I can present a pretty solid argument of building to prototypical practice and justify the designs and operations of most cars I build.

quote:
Did you detail the inside of your drover caboose and if so did you make or purchase the items you placed inside both the drover's compartment and the conductor's compartment?



I think I actually did do that for one of the cars - I recall actually building 3. Might have been the 3rd one that I put an interior into although I really dislike doing that since to appreciate that you need to make the roof removable and then getting and keeping a good fit there is very difficult to maintain.


In a time like ours seemings and portents signify. Ours is a generation when dogs howl and the skin crawls on the skull with its beast's foreboding.

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Joe-SVL
Section Hand

Posted - 11/09/2019 :  09:16:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit Joe-SVL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Mike,
Thanks for the link describing how a modeler modified a LaBelle kit to create a Drovers caboose. I had skimmed that article earlier but will now go back and study it in detail. In my skimming one idea popped out at me, namely that the modeler installed a tar paper roof. Was that a common roof covering in the 1940s - 1960-s?

Joe in Orlando



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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/09/2019 :  10:02:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Joe,

Honestly, I don’t know. This would have been a pretty old-fashioned car by the 40’s or 50’s so it would have reflected earlier practice, which would include what you have in mind.

You might want to do something like what was done for the MP car that I linked to above. In fact, I think it would be a good example to follow in proportions and details.

Mike




_______________________________________
And we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashin' — Bob Dylan

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Joe-SVL
Section Hand

Posted - 11/09/2019 :  11:03:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit Joe-SVL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Mike,

Several days before you posted your reply to my inquiry I found on-line a wonderful square-on photo of the MP 1112 car. I've extracted 20 measurements from that photo and now have a very good HO-scale CAD drawing of the side of the car.

thanks

Joe in Orlando



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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/09/2019 :  12:44:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joe-SVL


Several days before you posted your reply to my inquiry I found on-line a wonderful square-on photo of the MP 1112 car. I've extracted 20 measurements from that photo and now have a very good HO-scale CAD drawing of the side of the car.



Excellent. These cars were rare but make interesting models.

Mike



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Joe-SVL
Section Hand

Posted - 11/18/2019 :  5:32:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Joe-SVL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Is a Modified Drovers Caboose a passenger car?

Several months ago I came upon a wonderful almost square-on photograph of an MP 1112 Drovers Caboose and am using that car as the prototype for my 2-nd certificate car. A member of this forum also kindly pointed me to an AMB kit of the exactly same car. I am about to begin framing the interior of my car; but I've been intrigued by the presence of a slatted door on the side of the car. Last evening I sent an e-mail to the archivist of the MP Historical Society and get a very detailed reply this morning. Essentially the 1112 and others were modified by the MP from being Drovers Cabooses to being LCL carriers. All of the Drovers accommodations were removed in this modification. Thus I am concerned wrt whether this modified Drovers Caboose would quality as a passenger car.

MY question is should I install a regular door in place of the slatted door and claim that the MP 1112 is no longer a "Modified" Drovers Caboose and now just a regular Drovers Caboose and thus a passenger car again?

thanks

Joe in Orlando

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BurleyJim
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 11/18/2019 :  5:55:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joe,

You are making this a lot tougher than it needs to be.

Model it as the Drover Caboose, and in your documentation, tell what period you are displaying...problem is a non-problem.

Relax.

Jim


Take the red pill

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Michael Hohn
Fireman



Posted - 11/18/2019 :  10:48:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Michael Hohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
In that case I’d do a model of the unmodified passenger-carrying version. Here’s what the NMRA rules say:

‘“Passenger cars" include anything that would normally be found in a regular scheduled passenger train including baggage cars, express reefers, business cars, or other passenger carrying cars like drover's cabooses.’

The LCL car is no longer a passenger car.

You could build models of both types of MP cars or build a freelance drovers caboose by lengthening the MP car to fit a line of windows and freight doors. There are photos of this type of drovers caboose on the web. The few points you lose on not following a prototype exactly would be made up for by the complexity of the model.



Edited by - Michael Hohn on 11/18/2019 11:19:58 PM

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SAFN SAAP
Engine Wiper

Premium Member


Posted - 11/19/2019 :  09:00:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guys,

The Drover's Caboose, assigned to freight trains, were the quarters for the cowboys who were responsible for the livestock, and the quarters for them on the train. They tended to the horses, cattle, or other livestock, as railroads, under rule, were required to stop and unload the livestock into pens after so many hours for rest. Then reload when the rest and feeding period were over. The drovers stayed in that caboose, went to work, and returned to it when the train was to move. That is why is was called a "Drover's". Look at the railroads that had them. They were mostly mid-western and central in the country. Cowboy country.

Now I'm sure that the Drover's at some point, may have been used for passengers, but probably with some disdain. Cowboys probably weren't too worried about getting the excrement off their boots when getting into the caboose, so I'm sure that to some degree a particular smell was associated with them after much use. Even with cleaning, there still would remain a certain odoriferous scent, which to any farm hand is nothing, but to passengers would become, well, lets just say, unpleasant.

Levi



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Joe-SVL
Section Hand

Posted - 01/21/2020 :  09:21:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit Joe-SVL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Windows
I'm curious to hear from those who have scratch built a passenger / drovers caboose car wrt whether they left the window "glass" clear or whether they frosted them sorta like we do for buildings / factories.

Joe in Orlando



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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 01/21/2020 :  10:14:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joe, both my regular caboose and my passenger/combine had some interior details, so I left my windows clear. If they were empty spaces, I'd probably frost them.


Bruce

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jbvb
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 01/21/2020 :  10:31:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit jbvb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I've never built a drover's caboose, but until the era of scratched and fogged plastic windows (say post-1975), the only non-clear windows in any RR equipment were for toilets and dressing rooms. If the issue is making the interior less stark through the windows, I usually install shades on passenger car windows (except toilet/dressing rooms). I'd guess shades sometimes were installed on caboose body windows where crews used them as sleeping quarters. Maybe a bit of a luxury on drovers' cabooses, but the drovers usually slept on board.


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