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 NMRA AP Structures Certificate "Support" Thread
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Author Previous Topic: Enginehouse for Horace and William Creek Topic Next Topic: great interior photo of a machine shop
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AVRR-PA
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 03/22/2009 :  10:42:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit AVRR-PA's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi, y'all --

Thanks for the comments!

Chuck Faist - you are a brave volunteer. Having your work dissected in such a public way can lead to homicidal impulses. Your points and John's are well taken.

Judges may or may not cut you slack for things that happen to models than have been in use for a while. They were kind to me on the Connellsville Trolley Bridge, which gets handled a lot. But they warned me that I wouldn't get the same treatment in a Regional or National competition as opposed to AP evaluation.

I picked the Narrow Gauge bridge plan in part because it wasn't too complex since I wasn't ready to tackle a really big, complex bridge - yet. So I wasn't surprised when I left about 20 points on the table. Just wait until I get my fully operational model of a bascule bridge completed! (Just kidding.)

Chuck WVRR - thank for the kind words.

Don



Country: USA | Posts: 5005 Go to Top of Page

Frederic Testard
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 03/24/2009 :  02:48:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations, Don. Although the "conformity" item seems a bit difficult to evaluate to someone who doesn't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all the construction norms, it's great to see you've reached a points level that, in my opinion, you really deserved.


Country: France | Posts: 17634 Go to Top of Page

railmus
Fireman



Posted - 03/24/2009 :  09:47:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit railmus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Frederic Testard

Congratulations, Don. Although the "conformity" item seems a bit difficult to evaluate to someone who doesn't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all the construction norms, it's great to see you've reached a points level that, in my opinion, you really deserved.


FYI, MMR's Clarke Kooning and Ron Tuff noted that at NMRA Contest judging there is always a technical expert who is responsible for handling this.



Country: Canada | Posts: 1925 Go to Top of Page

mwbpequod
Fireman



Posted - 03/24/2009 :  1:51:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by railmus

quote:
Originally posted by Frederic Testard

Congratulations, Don. Although the "conformity" item seems a bit difficult to evaluate to someone who doesn't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all the construction norms, it's great to see you've reached a points level that, in my opinion, you really deserved.


FYI, MMR's Clarke Kooning and Ron Tuff noted that at NMRA Contest judging there is always a technical expert who is responsible for handling this.



Well, that's the ideal situation, but that's also why we do judging in teams of several people at least at the Nat'l and Regional conventions - very dificult to get 1 person that really knows it all and a team can smooth out things.

Also, conformity can be tricky to judge, but you as the modeler can improve your odds by adding as much documentation as possible. Anything odd or non-standard may get questioned w/o your providing an explanation as to why you built it just so.

Conformity is also the one area that I have not judged myself but have only been on the other side of the fence, I've been meaning to do something about that,


___________________________________________________________________
After the first glass, you see things as you wish they were.
After the second, you see things as they are not.
Finally, you see things as they really are, and that is the most horrible thing in the world.

Country: USA | Posts: 1476 Go to Top of Page

Chuck Davis
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/27/2009 :  8:34:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck Davis's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys,

I finally finished my income tax and have sometime to get back to discussing my structures which have already been judged. Chuck, I found your lessons learned from the judging exercise very interesting, and I think you might find some similarities in this Maintenance Shed.









If the NMRA had a Procrastination Award, this should have won 1st place. I started it in 1975 after attending an NMRA regional clinic on scratch building with styrene. I was so impressed I immediately started on this. It was totally scratch built except the Campbell windows. I even tried making siding and shingles from 0.010" styrene strip. Unfortunately, I used Testors liquid cement and the walls and roof warped. It sat in a box since then until I came across it last year. I decided to try refurbishing it for one of my scratch built structures. I inserted an interior wall, added the braces you see along the top of the walls, and made a new roof. Here's the writeup:

Download Attachment: NMRA Contest Judge Form 902.Maintenance Building.doc
37.4 KB

Download Attachment: Form 902 Continuation Maintenance Building.doc
32.79 KB

Here's the finished building.





Here's the points awarded and comments.
Construction (19): Neat construction-shape adds to complexity. Some rafters out of square.

Detail (7): For added points need nail holes and board lengths should show spacing. Could not see interior. Lamp shade size over scale.

Conformity (14): Where are the RMC plans?

Finish (17): Very well done. Roof drybrushing would help bring out details.

Scratch Building (14): Nice building.

Total (71)

I didn't think it would get enough points for a Merit Award, but I was pretty surprised how low it scored in Detail. I think whoever judged Detail has never sided a structure. Nails are set and holes are filled with putty or caulking so they won't rust. Boards are butted to prevent leaks. It's like the oversized joints and grain that are cast on wood sided cars. If wood flooring had joints like that it wouldn't take long to rot out. But that's my opinion.

If anyone is finding this helpful, I'll try to do it for the others that were judged.

Chuck




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railphotog
Fireman



Posted - 03/28/2009 :  07:27:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit railphotog's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Chuck: As I recall, the "Detail" portion of a model judging is concerned with the quantity as well as the quality; if a model has plenty of details, it can earn points, not many details means fewer points. I don't think you mentioned if the roof on your structure was removable so the judges could see the details inside. If it was removable, a whole lot more details could have been added to gain points - coal box with some spilled, coal scuttle, calendar and other things on the walls, detail parts in the shelves, tools like shovels, brooms, etc., paperwork on the desk, etc. If the roof was not removable, then detailing could have been done more on the outside for more points - smoke jack, tools hanging on the wall, signs to identify the structure, notices posted on the walls, partially opened windows, electrical entrance with meter, vents, etc.

More details = more points! Scratchbuilt details = more points!

Good luck!





Bob Boudreau
My model railroad photography website:
http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/

Country: Canada | Posts: 3993 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/28/2009 :  08:59:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chuck,

After reading the comments on the first few structures that I had judged/evaluated, I came to the conclusion that most evaluators were well-meaning modelers, but with no more real world experience in construction than I had. Most of their construction experience came, as mine did, from model construction.

Therefore, I began to include comments about my "intent" in the Conformity and/or Finish & Lettering categories on the entry sheet.

For instance, I might say: "It was my intent to model a structure with a well weathered roof, but newly painted walls." (This after I had a comment about the miss-match between the level of weathering on the roof vs. walls of a structure.) In your case, you could have headed off the comment on the nail holes by adding a comment: "It was my intent to depict a well maintained structure where the nail holes had been puttied over ..."

Near the end, when I was almost done with the 12 structures, I got pretty good at heading off questions with my 'intent' comments.


Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29740 Go to Top of Page

wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 04/19/2009 :  5:12:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Today, I had the hoist house judged at the Garden State Division meet Here are photos of the model from my anthracite thread:

















The model received the following score:

32 out of 40 Construction
19 out of 20 Detail
22 out of 25 Conformity
24 out of 25 Finish
15 out of 15 Scratchbuilding

The two comments I received were in regards toe the pilasters. On a couple of the walls, the bottom of the pilasters are exposed, rather than supported, by the foundation. That was because of a mistake in measuring. The second is that two of the walls have two additional pilasters than the remaining two. And, the trusses would suggest that there should be two additional pilasters on those walls.

Overall, I am happy with the comments and received a merit award for it.

Chuck



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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 04/19/2009 :  5:48:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations, Chuck. Having seen it in person today, I can say that it is a real beauty.

Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29740 Go to Top of Page

Frederic Testard
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 04/19/2009 :  6:43:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations, Chuck. To me it's well deserved! And if there were points for the happiness you gave to other modellers following your efforts, I would give you 20 out of 20.


Country: France | Posts: 17634 Go to Top of Page

Chuck Davis
Engine Wiper

Posted - 04/19/2009 :  7:18:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck Davis's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Chuck,

Congratulations. What a fantastic model!!!! I certainly would give you 20 of 20 for detail.

Chuck Davis



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northern6400
Fireman



Posted - 04/20/2009 :  12:04:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations Chuck you certainly deserved the points you obtained. Well done!

Chuck Faist
Burlington, Ontario
Enjoy yourself it is later than you think!

Country: Canada | Posts: 3488 Go to Top of Page

Orionvp17
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 04/20/2009 :  12:21:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chuck,

Congratulations on a well-deserved Merit Award!

Pete
in Michigan



Country: USA | Posts: 5357 Go to Top of Page

elwoodblues
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 04/20/2009 :  12:39:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit elwoodblues's Homepage  Send elwoodblues a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Congratulations on the merit awards Don and Chuck.



Ron Newby
General Manager
Clearwater Valley Railway Co.
http://cvry.ca

Country: Canada | Posts: 6442 Go to Top of Page

trainsforall
New Hire

Posted - 04/20/2009 :  5:38:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AVRR-PA

Hi, everyone --

I missed a couple of additional points by not adding NBW's on the underside of the bridge, which I could have easily done before I installed it. Crazy? Well, no crazier than fully detailed brake rigging.

Don




Don,

Congratulations!

Remember our emails about the NBW's on the cribbing of the freight station I sent you the plans on? Looks like they want something on BOTH sides . . . . even when you can't really see it! That doubles the work.

Anyway, great job on the bridge!

Joe M.
Cleveland, OH



Edited by - trainsforall on 04/20/2009 5:40:41 PM

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