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 NMRA AP Structures Certificate "Support" Thread
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Author Previous Topic: Enginehouse for Horace and William Creek Topic Next Topic: great interior photo of a machine shop
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Chuck Davis
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/13/2009 :  1:32:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck Davis's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The interior photos were included in the documentation. I wanted the judges to see what was inside without taking the roof off.







And here are a few of the finished tower.






The tower will eventually be installed at this location on the layout.



If anyone is interested in copying Form 902 and jotting down the scores you would assign, I'll post the judges score and their comments sometime next week.

Chuck




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wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 03/13/2009 :  4:33:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Chuck,

Nice model! So, are you modeling Wilkes-Barre?

Chuck



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Chuck Davis
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/14/2009 :  12:00:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck Davis's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Chuck,

Thanks for the comment. We are modeling the same area,aren't we! Several of the buildings I have scratchbuilt, or plan to, are from the Wyoming Valley (that's in northeast PA for those not familiar with the area). Some are included among the 12 structures I'm submitting. I'll post pictures of them next week.

Most of the structures I have done are more typical of the area, rather than trying to scratbuild everything. Like my 6 stall roundhouse follows the style of the 32 stall roundhouse at Coxton, including the whitewash finish. I haven't updated my website in almost two years (that's about 10 on my to do list), but it gives an idea.

Chuck
http://members.cox.net/mylvrr



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Frederic Testard
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 03/14/2009 :  7:29:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chuck, the inside and outside of the tower are nicely done. I'm interested in seeing what the judges think of it.


Country: France | Posts: 17579 Go to Top of Page

Chuck Davis
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/16/2009 :  11:38:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck Davis's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Frederic,

Thanks for the nice comment. Here's the judges scores and comments:

Construction-23 "Large gap between roof and siding, some tarpaper lifting off roof"
Detail-14 "Nice detail"
Conformity- 23 "Nice documentation"
Finish and Lettering-20 "Very well done"
Scratchbuilding-9 "Very nice"
TOTAL-89 (87.5 points are needed for a Merit Award, so it just made it.

I hope someone besides myself took the opportunity to use the Judging Guidelines and Form 902 to test your own judging. I surprised myself and was only 1 off on the total.

A couple of comments I have on selecting projects which can get a Merit Award. Remember only 6 of the 12 need to get a Merit Award, and 6 of 12 need to be scratch built.

I think the key category to consider is Construction, because it is 40 points-at least 15 more than any other category and almost half of what's needed for a merit award. I put this tower a little above the Somewhat Complex category just because it is so small. The Tichy Coaaling Tower I modified on the other hand I would put in the Very Complex or Difficult category.

Vic made a good point earlier about the limitation in the Scratch Building category if you use commercial castings for windows and doors. You may lose 5-7 points, but if there is a commercial one available that's close to the prototype you need, you may make it up in Conformity. But if you modify one and cast it, it should also help in Construction.

In picking a structure to scratch build, pick a prototype to gain points in Conformity, and if you make your own plans it can add points in Construction.

I have a matrix I made up for myself in Excel that you may find interesting or helpful. Haven't figured out a way to post it yet-it keeps getting rejected.

Any other recommendations or comments?

Chuck






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bitlerisvj
Fireman

Posted - 03/16/2009 :  3:52:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Chuck,
Congratulations, you made the number that counts! I do agree that you may as well use a commercially available door or window, especially if it will net you more points in Conformity, since Conformity is worth 25 max and Scratchbuilding is only woth 15 max. I think the interior helped put you over the top. Good job.
Regards, Vic Bitleris
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Davis

Hi Frederic,

Thanks for the nice comment. Here's the judges scores and comments:

Construction-23 "Large gap between roof and siding, some tarpaper lifting off roof"
Detail-14 "Nice detail"
Conformity- 23 "Nice documentation"
Finish and Lettering-20 "Very well done"
Scratchbuilding-9 "Very nice"
TOTAL-89 (87.5 points are needed for a Merit Award, so it just made it.

I hope someone besides myself took the opportunity to use the Judging Guidelines and Form 902 to test your own judging. I surprised myself and was only 1 off on the total.

A couple of comments I have on selecting projects which can get a Merit Award. Remember only 6 of the 12 need to get a Merit Award, and 6 of 12 need to be scratch built.

I think the key category to consider is Construction, because it is 40 points-at least 15 more than any other category and almost half of what's needed for a merit award. I put this tower a little above the Somewhat Complex category just because it is so small. The Tichy Coaaling Tower I modified on the other hand I would put in the Very Complex or Difficult category.

Vic made a good point earlier about the limitation in the Scratch Building category if you use commercial castings for windows and doors. You may lose 5-7 points, but if there is a commercial one available that's close to the prototype you need, you may make it up in Conformity. But if you modify one and cast it, it should also help in Construction.

In picking a structure to scratch build, pick a prototype to gain points in Conformity, and if you make your own plans it can add points in Construction.

I have a matrix I made up for myself in Excel that you may find interesting or helpful. Haven't figured out a way to post it yet-it keeps getting rejected.

Any other recommendations or comments?

Chuck








Country: USA | Posts: 1405 Go to Top of Page

Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/16/2009 :  5:47:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chuck,

Thank you for sharing your write up, judges comments, scores, and analysis. I think that it will be helpful to other working through the AP program.


Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29439 Go to Top of Page

wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 03/16/2009 :  7:10:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
That's great, Chuck. The merit award is what counts. Conformity is the one area that concerns me on my current model. It isn't based on a prototype.

Chuck



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Frederic Testard
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 03/16/2009 :  7:59:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the analysis, Chuck. And congratulations for making the points.


Country: France | Posts: 17579 Go to Top of Page

George D
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 03/16/2009 :  8:04:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I finally had time to get caught up on this thread.

Chuck, That tower (the new one) is beautiful. I hope I get to see it up close.

George




Country: USA | Posts: 13631 Go to Top of Page

Chuck Davis
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/17/2009 :  10:37:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck Davis's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Chuck, the guidelines also define Conformity as "...following prototype practice in construction and application of parts." I think your building should just about max out in that category.

Vic also mentioned the impact of modeling an interior on a structure I certainly agree with him on that. I also think adding lights to a structure is a big factor. But then a judge noted on one of my strucures that an exterior light was out of scale. There must be somebody on this Forum who could enlighten us all on what can infuence judging.

Chuck





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Chuck Davis
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/17/2009 :  10:41:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck Davis's Homepage  Reply with Quote
George, I'm glad you liked Frankin Junction. Come on over and see it. Just give me a call. If anyone else gets down to the Norfolk area and would like to stop by, visitors are always welcome.

Chuck



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wvrr
Fireman



Posted - 03/17/2009 :  11:26:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit wvrr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Chuck,

Boy, do I feel embarrassed! I am the editor of my division newsletter, and our AP chairman wrote an article about conformity for the next issue. I read it a couple months ago when he sent it to me and forgot it was in there. So, I reread it this morning. It does raise the point you mentioned.

I have to take some time and explore the photos you have on your webpage. Its always fun to see someone else modeling the same area.

Chuck



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Chuck Davis
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/18/2009 :  10:07:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck Davis's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here is that Excel spread sheet I mentioned earlier. The only way I could figure out to get it posted was to take a photo of it.

It was useful to me in identifying and narrowing down the 12 structures I would submit. Originally I think I listed about 18 I either had built, or planned to build, which would satisfy the requirements. Once I narrowed it down to 12, it was easier to concentrate on them and most of the others are in the "to do" pile.

Remember, besides 6 that must be scratch built, and 6 that must earn a merit award, the others can be anything-they just have to be different.

Now I primarily use it to keep track of which ones I still need to complete the documentation on. Hope you find it interesting or useful.

Chuck





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AVRR-PA
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 03/19/2009 :  10:11:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit AVRR-PA's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi, everyone --

It's been really interesting and helpful to read Chuck's report on how his models were evaluated. I'll try to provide similar information next week, after my narrow gauge bridge has been evaluated.

I've finished adding details to it and completed the paperwork. It will be evaluated during the NMRA Keystone Division Jamboree this Saturday.

Here are some pictures of it, in final (for the moment, at least) form:

I got this idea from Karl Osolinski --




Garth did the signs for me using his CAD program.

Seagulls, etc. --




Some details --









Protective cover on, ready to travel --



Back to working on the little dioramas.

Don







Edited by - AVRR-PA on 03/20/2009 1:36:36 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 5005 Go to Top of Page
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