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Author Previous Topic: The Gallery: Dec. 2018 Modeling Year In Review Topic Next Topic: The Gallery: Nov. 18 Interior Decoration Pt. 3
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grlakeslogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 08/24/2008 :  10:36:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by deemery

quote:
Where are the nail holes?


Well when clapboard is done -correctly-, the nails holding each row of clapboard are hidden by the overhang of the next row.

If you look carefully at the side shots, you can see the subtle change in weathering color along each vertical joist. But no nail holes!

dave



Exactly! First a disclaimer: We do each tend to model what we see in our region of the country. I am from the upper midwest. It was 55 degrees with some dew and condensation this morning. Buildings are insulated for the cold up here. Minus twenty Fahrenheit is common in the winter with minus forty wind chill temperatures ... and snow. I have also lived near Chesapeake Bay in Maryland and in Newport, RI, both places with historic buildings of all descriptions.

Most of what we actually see on wood structures are nail heads, not nail holes. Four of us, including a contractor buddy, just resided my mom's house. We used white cedar clapboard. It has been primed and has a color coat on it at this moment. We used a 6 1/2" reveal (the visible portion of the clapboard) to match other parts of the house where the siding was in good repair and did not need to be replaced, even though some of it is 55 years old. All the boards were nailed on every stud (16" centers) AT THE BOTTOM of the board. So the nail locations are visible with that much reveal. Back in the forties a four-inch reveal, or something close to that, was more common. I do not know how those were nailed, maybe the same way, or maybe just at the top. A larger reveal needs a bottom nail to keep the clapboard from lifting in the wind and snow. And cedar tends to bow if not nailed down.

The bottom line is that I cannot see a nail head from more than 30 feet away. That is about four actual inches from the structure for us HO scale guys. If a nail head protrudes at all, it casts a shadow or is highlighted in the mid-morning light--still not a "nail hole". It had been a few years since I had done siding so, as we began, my contractor friend half jokingly cautioned me, "Not too many smiley's!" "Smiley's" are what carpenters call hammer marks in the soft wood. Those are PAINFULLY visible.

On old buildings, we are most likely to see raised nails (those shadows and highlights again). Coated nails have been used since the 60's for siding. For buildings before that or on cheap construction, we might see rust spots/stains ... but still few actual nail holes. We might also see that on buildings that have gone too long between painting.

Butt joints and splits can easily be seen from about forty feet away. Shadows and highlights again.

If you take a walk through the oldest part of any old city where there is still some wood construction, take a close look and then model what you see for construction technique.

On the subject of "scribed horizontal siding": Much of what we model with scribed siding sheet is actually novelty siding with milled, concave curve in the top inch or so. This stuff tended to be tongue and groove. So it was toe-nailed at about a 45 degree angle downward AT THE TONGUE (top). On this type of siding, no nail holes or heads would be visible at all. I only know this because long ago, my dad bought a couple of old buildings to tear down for the wood. So I had to help demolish a couple while saving the wood. This construction would have been done up till about 1940 here.

Bottom line--I prefer to model what I see. I will add a few visible board ends here and there. Though I do LIKE nail holes on a model, I prefer to not add nail holes unless the structure is less than one locomotive length from my eyes on the layout.

I know we all seem to have feelings on the subject, and I certainly make no claims to being an authority on either wood construction or structure modeling. But my way works for me. I hope your way works for you. That is what is really important! I do hope I have not upset anybody--that was never my intent. We do sometimes seem to obsess about these things ...

--Stu--


--Stu--
It's a great day whenever steam heads out into the timber!

Country: USA | Posts: 870 Go to Top of Page

belg
Fireman



Posted - 08/24/2008 :  11:00:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by belg

quote:
Originally posted by GreggW

quote:
Originally posted by belg

Gregg, did you measure anything to be able to scale the building? I agree that it needs to be build and have saved all your pics to make an attempt at it in the future. The afore mentioned question would be much appreciated, thanks Pat

Pat, Pat, Pat. Let me get this straight. I am 3000 miles from home on business, driving down a country road, find this barn and I am supposed to stop, pull out a ladder and tape measure and get all the dimensions of this baby before the farmer decides to introduce me to some buckshot? (It's bad enough that Lurker has me sneaking around taking pictures of the backside.) I cannot believe how demanding you all are!! Ok, I'll fess up, I actualy thought about how to scale this beauty. So I did the best I could do under the circumstances and made sure my Hundai rental car was in one of the pictures. (If you look back you will see the white SRV). We can get the length of the car and then scale everything from there.

Gregg



Well Gregg, I'm glad to see your brain was working just like mine when it came time to scale. I see a few other items in your additional pics that can also be used. So you mean to tell me that the thought of a little buckshot would have scared you off?? NNNaaaah I don't believe that. I think even the colors of the storefront are really well thought out. Now as Peter said if you really wanted to help us out you should have gotten on the roof to take some detail shots from up there as well. LOL thanks so much, Pat




Country: USA | Posts: 4502 Go to Top of Page

Ensign
Fireman

Posted - 08/24/2008 :  8:59:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Hmmm, a guy with the handle "Lurker" is interested in pictures of backsides. Why am I not surprised? I drove by The Barn the other evening, on the way to Carl's and was able to take a couple quick shots, including one of the rear. This beauty has to get built!!

GreggW




Hey Gregg, I just returned from the cottage and read your reply to my question regarding the backside of the barn.It made me laugh, so thank you for that first! for that. And thank you again for taking the time to stop and shoot the back of this very interesting barn.I must go now and hang up my trench coat and put my dark sun glasses away. I will be watching you
Greg



Country: Canada | Posts: 7774 Go to Top of Page

GreggW
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 08/25/2008 :  1:46:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I posted some prototype station pics in the following thread.
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22754

I also stumbled onto the following web site, which has some great station photos.
http://bridge-line.org/blhs/dhstations.html#Whitehall

Gregg



Country: USA | Posts: 1316 Go to Top of Page

DaveInTheHat
Engine Wiper



Posted - 08/26/2008 :  2:29:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit DaveInTheHat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is an old store a few blocks away from me. I'll probably scratch build something pretty close to this in the near future.







http://www.fotki.com/daveinthehat
http://www.youtube.com/user/daveinthehat/videos

Country: USA | Posts: 273 Go to Top of Page

grlakeslogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 08/27/2008 :  12:36:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave, thank you! The crumbling concrete, metal railings, and the structure in general look very useful!
--Stu--


--Stu--
It's a great day whenever steam heads out into the timber!

Country: USA | Posts: 870 Go to Top of Page

Danny Head
Fireman

Posted - 08/27/2008 :  08:02:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave, that is a great subject for a scratch build. The torn down portion is a very good detail. Did anyone notice the small Coca-Cola fishtail sign in the front doorway? I am surprised no one has broken the glass to steal it. Danny


Country: USA | Posts: 1889 Go to Top of Page

Peterpools
Engineer



Posted - 08/27/2008 :  6:10:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Peterpools's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Dave
A true find. thanks for posting.
Peter



Country: USA | Posts: 12335 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 08/27/2008 :  6:38:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And hey... I see roof details.. Great find and great pics. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for a model.

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Country: USA | Posts: 7124 Go to Top of Page

UKGuy
Fireman



Posted - 08/27/2008 :  8:29:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit UKGuy's Homepage  Send UKGuy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
That is a great looking little structure, any way of finding out what the roofcap is made of??? (I never know what to do with them).

All these great structures to build and I have only seen a few actually built, now I know we all have 20 or so 'half-builts' on the shelves already but maybe a thread titled "Prototype structures that actually got built" collating the few (so far) builds/inspirations from these threads would be an idea.
ie: Post a pic of the proto from this thread (and a reference link) and then three pics of the model. Just thinking outloud, kinda like a 'Finished Thread' from the challenges.

Karl.A



Edited by - UKGuy on 08/27/2008 8:34:30 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6216 Go to Top of Page

DaveInTheHat
Engine Wiper



Posted - 08/27/2008 :  11:40:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit DaveInTheHat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The roof is slate with a steel cap. You can see the pictures larger on my Fotki page:

http://public.fotki.com/DaveInTheHat/pictures_along_the_way/old_store/


http://www.fotki.com/daveinthehat
http://www.youtube.com/user/daveinthehat/videos

Country: USA | Posts: 273 Go to Top of Page

grlakeslogger
Crew Chief

Posted - 08/27/2008 :  11:40:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great idea, Karl!

--Stu--


--Stu--
It's a great day whenever steam heads out into the timber!

Country: USA | Posts: 870 Go to Top of Page

Frederic Testard
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 08/28/2008 :  04:05:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is really a nice structure, and your fotki posted pictures show many interesting details. Thanks for sharing.
By the way, I spent a few minutes browsing your site and was impressed by the amount of great models you have on it. Your rowboat making tutorial should inspire other people there.



Country: France | Posts: 17652 Go to Top of Page

hunter48820
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 08/30/2008 :  4:52:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave,
That's a great old store. Would look neat on a layout in a little old forgotten town along an old branchline!!


Look out for #1, but don't step in #2!

Andy Keeney
Dewitt, MI

Edited by - hunter48820 on 09/05/2008 11:03:30 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 6117 Go to Top of Page

hon3_rr
Fireman

Premium Member


Posted - 08/30/2008 :  5:05:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Karl... I love the idea.. Or even a group build on one of these structures...

-- KP --
Life is to short to build all of the models I want to.

Country: USA | Posts: 7124 Go to Top of Page
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