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Dutchman
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 01/17/2007 :  10:39:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike,

Glad to hear that it all worked out!


Bruce

Modeling the railroads of the Jersey Highlands in HO and the logging railroads of Pennsylvania in HOn3

Country: USA | Posts: 29461 Go to Top of Page

bourlandcreek
New Hire

Posted - 03/12/2017 :  2:41:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's a very old topic, but we newbies are still building this Shay. I'll try to keep my post short. If you folks are still around-

The only upgrade to my MDC 2-trk is the NWSL bullnose, idler and drive gear.

Re: goldbandit's 1/10/07 9:29:30 post: I didn't have to drill out the universal "cups." I had to enlarge the existing holes. I didn't do well so need to get new universals. Anyone else have this? Know what drill bit size should I use?

Re: Mike C's quote of goldbandit on 1/8/07 9:10, my power shafts were both too long, not short. I had to trim ends of shafts to get them to fit and they still don't work well. Any suggestions?

I think the long and short power shafts are available in steel. Are they correct length and have "T"s on the ends? And I think slanted truck axle gears are available. Where can I get all these parts?

Are there upgrades for the universal "cups"? Stock ones aren't the best. Also, the truck mounting pins let the trucks "flop." Is there a better mounting arrangement? Any other upgrades for this loco, e.g. sideframe shaft?



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Philip
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 03/12/2017 :  5:31:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do you have the instructions? The side shafts only need one gear, off-set so it barely turns the assemble. The trucks may be screwed to the frame (recommended). The original drive lines are big and out of balance compared to the upgrades. I have finished 2 with the upgrade and never had to trim the steel shaft. The tee's must be installed. I recommend the upgrade minus the motor.



Welcome aboard !



Edited by - Philip on 03/12/2017 10:13:51 PM

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CWRailman
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/13/2017 :  11:58:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit CWRailman's Homepage  Reply with Quote

These old MDC two truck Shay kits build into a fine model when the builder takes the time and pay attention to details. I am pleased to see another modeler building one of these kits.

This Shay locomotive was built from one of the first MDC Shay kits to hit the market. We were sent this kit to construct and review. Later we added NWSL gears and again were supposed to do a review but someone got their review in before we did. When built we replaced the open frame motor with an early vintage Sagami 1630 which made this a great slow speed runner. Then about 25 years ago during construction of our logging railroad this Shay got accidentally run off the end of a switchback and sailed nearly 6 foot down to a concrete floor scattering pieces in every direction. A few years later we started putting it back together and though it is still missing detail parts, it became a test bed for numerous motors. About four years ago we replaced the motor it then had with one of our favorite Mabuchi flat can 8900rpm motors. This motor had a slight increase in low end torque over the Sagami 1630 motor and produced a slower start speed. We still have two unbuilt kits in our inventory and “some day” may actually get around to building another one. By the way, of you are able to luck into one of these kits with the shiny round can motor you have got a great motor there. About 20 years ago (give or take a few) when MDC was still in business we ordered a few of those motors as “replacement motors” and installed them in brass locomotives. They proved to be better than the 1630 motors that NWSL was selling at the time and had operational characteristics similar to the 1631 motors NWSL sold for a brief period of time. I often suspected that they came out of the same factory as those 1631 NWSL motors. Check out the “Remotoring a MDC Shay” on our Project’s page http://www.cwrailman.com/projects.html and click on the last image in that presentation to see how our Shay runs in comparison to a remotored PFM brass Shay.
Denny
Janitor in Training
CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
WEB site: http://www.cwrailman.com/
Facebook: CWRailman





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Philip
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 03/13/2017 :  12:20:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My other Shay has the can 1630 and seems to run about the same as the stock motor. Great write up Denny. Glad to not be alone although mine are both converted to On30, to include the re machining of the wheels, IE taller stance and more clearance of that pesky bull wheel.

Philip



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CWRailman
Engine Wiper

Posted - 03/13/2017 :  12:46:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit CWRailman's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Philip,
It was that statement about the gearbox hitting the rail that caused me to check out our MDC Shay. I could not recall having to do any modification but it has been many years since that locomotive was built and I have slept a few times since then. Over the years there must have been some change in manufacturing that box or a lowering of the frame some way. I ran our Shay across one of our turnouts and checked clearance and it clears the rails by a good 1/16”.
Denny
Janitor in Training
CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
WEB site: http://www.cwrailman.com/
Facebook: CWRailman





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bourlandcreek
New Hire

Posted - 03/13/2017 :  11:26:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I have the instructions and a flat can motor. I got new power shafts and they're also too long. Weird. Will have to be content with my modified shafts. They barely allow the trucks to rotate.

I've heard it's better to mount the trucks with screws, not the plastic pins. I have some 2-56 screws and nuts and it looks like I'll have to position the screws in the truck housing, head down and glue nuts to the top of the frame. Sound right?

I think NWSL makes additional upgrade parts for this loco, e.g., steel power shafts, helical worm gears, and delrin axle gears. The link: http://shop.osorail.com/category.sc?categoryid=62

shows some. I don't know if I have a pre-1998 kit so I can't tell which upgrades apply to me.

Does anyone make a quality u-joint, not a plastic T-bone that mates with the slotted end of a plastic cylinder?

Thanks and Best Regards, Gary



Country: USA | Posts: 5 Go to Top of Page

bourlandcreek
New Hire

Posted - 03/14/2017 :  9:47:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got an NWSL bull gear upgrade from someone and I don't think it has all the parts. In addition to the bull gear, drive gear, and idler gear, should there be a few universals in the envelope?

I didn't get any so I used two universals out of the MDC box. They're just big enough that the shafts between the gearbox and truck are too long to fit. Does it sound like I didn't get all the upgrade parts I need?



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bitlerisvj
Fireman

Posted - 03/16/2017 :  1:37:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The NWSL bull gear upgrade,(53-1886) comes with a a universal kit, 8 horned balls, 4 solid and 4 with a hole through as well as 4 cups. It also has two steel shafts in addition to the gear. I know NWSL sells the universal kits separately at a very reasonable cost.
But, if you can use the original it should work. My original parts split over time and just spun on the shaft.
Regards, Vic B.
quote:
Originally posted by bourlandcreek

I got an NWSL bull gear upgrade from someone and I don't think it has all the parts. In addition to the bull gear, drive gear, and idler gear, should there be a few universals in the envelope?

I didn't get any so I used two universals out of the MDC box. They're just big enough that the shafts between the gearbox and truck are too long to fit. Does it sound like I didn't get all the upgrade parts I need?




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Philip
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 03/16/2017 :  4:21:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bourlandcreek


I've heard it's better to mount the trucks with screws, not the plastic pins. I have some 2-56 screws and nuts and it looks like I'll have to position the screws in the truck housing, head down and glue nuts to the top of the frame. Sound right?

Thanks and Best Regards, Gary



Gary find a screw this size and cut it to length. It is .107 outside diameter fine thread I found at Ace hardware. The head will also need to be narrowed to fit the recess in the diecast. A 2/56 may not be large enough. Try and see. I threaded the prepared fine thread screw into the truck. It will thread itself if you go in and out several times like a tap. Take the truck apart prior to threading and make sure the screw is straight up and down. I'm sure you could use the nut method as long as their is no interference. The photos show the progression from left to right. The .555 X .107 is how it needs to look. The far left is the the screw before machining and dressing the head. The 2-56 screw are close in diameter to the factory truck mount pin, but to small in diameter. Sand the top of the truck after threading to relieve the burr.



This is how I ran the power. I used .009 guitar string on both sides, front and rear trucks to scrub the wheel tops. This particular frame was a three truck modified into a two truck.


The cover that holds the wheels and gears in position can also be modified if the tangs break off. holler if you need that step.

I hope this helps.
Philip



Edited by - Philip on 03/16/2017 4:26:43 PM

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bourlandcreek
New Hire

Posted - 03/16/2017 :  5:51:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very helpful. I will try my double-nut setup first and if I'm not completely satisfied I'll get to Ace.

I like your power pickup - on the tread part of the wheel instead of the back. How did you secure the middle of the guitar string to the truck so you could solder the wire to it?

By the way, The Shay has a bad axle gear. Would you recommend buying a puller/press and pulling the wheels myself, or have my local train shop do it?



Country: USA | Posts: 5 Go to Top of Page

Philip
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 03/16/2017 :  7:33:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Use the original pick-ups and trim the excess off both sides (dotted lines) and soldier the wire to the top. It should look something like this, position wire to whatever position you require.

It may take a bit of filing to remove some solder if a bubble appears. The side frames need to sit equal. Try to get this accomplished without error. The more you remove and replace the sides, they get wallowed. especially the side shaft side because they secure the driveline. Just keep in mind upper clearance of the frame so it clears the frame and remove before soldering because it will melt the plastic. If you notice my frame they are hollowed out for clearance.





EDIT: Cut a long length 2" of the .009 nickle silver wire (Guitar string) and tape it down with the rest of the pieces to be soldiered. Do both the power wire and pick-up at the same time. Sorry, forgot that step. Then the assembly may be bent into position and excess trimmed to length after it is installed on the truck. My first attempt was with a thicker gauge wire and it was a painful disaster. I changed to the thinner wire.009. So much easier to work with yet tense enough to ride the wheel.
Philip



Edited by - Philip on 03/16/2017 7:56:25 PM

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bourlandcreek
New Hire

Posted - 03/20/2017 :  08:50:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I started this project with HOn3 in mind but I've encountered difficulties that suggest standard HO might take less time and effort. I'm short on both right now.

If this loco's parts for HO and HOn3 are identical except for the trucks, is it feasible to just get HO trucks? If not, I've bitten off more than I may be able to chew.



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Philip
Fireman

Premium Member

Posted - 03/20/2017 :  12:15:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No idea.


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