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Author Previous Topic: Pot Topper: How I use it in scenery construction Topic Next Topic: Electrical Requirements
Page: of 101

Mike Hamer
Engineer



Posted - 11/19/2006 :  12:05:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mike Hamer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good luck with the water project Tim. We're eagerly awaiting the results! (Now if that doesn't put the pressure on! Geez!)

Mike Hamer
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://www.bostonandmaine.blogspot.ca
http://www.craftsmanstructures.blogspot.ca
http://modelrailroadsivisit.blogspot.ca

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MarkF
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 11/19/2006 :  6:39:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good luck Tim. I'm sure the water will turn out great and am looking foward to seeing the pics of your work in progress. Hey, and if by some slim chance you happen to screw it up, don't dispair. I for one will find it refreshing to know that you are in fact human and make mistakes!

Mark

Country: USA | Posts: 13728 Go to Top of Page

Tim Kerkhoff
Fireman



Posted - 11/19/2006 :  8:50:25 PM  Show Profile  Send Tim Kerkhoff a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Here is the first pour, the color is kind of close to what is there, but it needs to be darker. I will add more color in the next pour. I am a little concern though as I add color I will loose the paint detail of the bottom.
Has anyone painted over the envirotex and then pour another layer. I was thinking about making the middle darker, which it will get with my first plan of adding color, but the color will cover up the brown bank edges. Any thoughts.

I was planning one more pour and then add gloss medium to make rougher water.









How do you handle the edge creep with Envirotex. I was thinking about painting over the edge and maybe add some dirt. What do you guys do.



The last two pics show the scenery that I have been working on to the right of the bridges. You can see the road in the first one and the second shows what you see if you were running your train and was headed EB. The blue tape is where the water pour is.






I hope to make another our tomorrow night, but I am curious about painting over the Envirotex or am I stuck in coloring the envirotex in the pour?



Country: USA | Posts: 5879 Go to Top of Page

Bbags
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 11/19/2006 :  9:02:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tim,
Sorry can't help with the water as I have never used EnviroTex.
I just wanted to say I am still following along with my jaw dropping to the floor each time I see new pictures.



John Bagley
Modeling the Alaska Railroad in HO in Wildwood Georgia.

Country: USA | Posts: 13315 Go to Top of Page

Marken
Fireman



Posted - 11/19/2006 :  9:39:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tim, I think it looks great as is. Like John, I've never worked with EnviroTex so I can't comment.

As for edge creep, the Woodland Scenics water did the same thing. But if you notice on a real river the rocks and ground can be wet from various occurances. What helped with my creek was to only pour in the middle of it and it did help.

BTW...did I mention it looks great!!


In memory of Mike Chambers

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Tabooma County Rwy
Fireman



Posted - 11/19/2006 :  11:27:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tim, looking good! The color I see from your pictures reminds me of the Mississippi River - slow and muddy. Is that what you were after?

I've used Envirotex several times and yes, edge creep is always an issue. But like Ken said, most water, especially rivers, has some movement and that is good enough for me, to explain away why the shore is a little "wet". I've never painted my pours - just added color to the pours, so can't help you there.



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MarkF
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 11/19/2006 :  11:41:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tim, it's been a while since I've done any water, but just about each time I did, I used Envirotex and I really liked it. As for the color, while the pictures probably don't do it justice, the color does look fine to me. I wouldn't try to paint this coat. You will definitely loose the detail of the bottom. When I had done it in the past, we did all the painting on the bed of the river, then poured it on top. I've also tried coloring the Envirotex also with some success (and no, I don't remember what paint we used - that was about 25 years ago!). But we did have some sucess with this method as it actually tinted the water. I do remember we were going for a darker look in a 'deep river', and we had added a lot of color but it seemed to almost disappear, so I would imagine it's almost impossible to mess this up if you try it.

As far as the 'creep' onto the edges, when you are all finished with the final pour and after letting it dry for at least 24 hours, I would use a 50/50 white glue mixture, and carefully work your scenery materials closer to the water. But be careful as if you get too close, you'll get this strange look as if the water is now going under the scenery! Ask me how I know! I would keep a little bit of the 'creep up' on the bank as was perviously mentioned, the water will leave a 'wetness' on the banks.

I think it looks great! Keep it coming.


Mark

Edited by - MarkF on 11/19/2006 11:43:53 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 13728 Go to Top of Page

electrolove
Section Hand



Posted - 11/20/2006 :  12:33:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit electrolove's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tim,

Regarding the creep issue.

I have the David Frary DVD collection called mainline modeler. Dave first paints the edge with a brush dipped in envirotex to stop the envirotex from creeping any longer then that, then he add the rest of the envirotex. Hope that helps.



Edited by - electrolove on 11/20/2006 12:35:24 AM

Country: Sweden | Posts: 51 Go to Top of Page

MikeC
Administrator

Premium Member


Posted - 11/20/2006 :  10:11:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Simply more outstanding scenery work, Tim.

I have used EnviroTex many times over the years, sometimes with paint added, sometimes no paint added - just poured over painted surfaces. Your concern about losing bottom detail by adding more color is well founded. I discovered that to be a problem several years ago when I was trying to make a stream "murky" but still wanted the rocks and debris under the surface to be visible. The more color you add, even in separate layers or pours, the more opaque the water will become. I think if it were me, I'd leave your stream as is, if the bottom detailing is important. I'd apply a top coat of acrylic gloss medium or Future and let it go.

With edge creep, your own suggestion is exactly the way I've handled it in the past: paint the edges/shoreline and then add small rocks/dirt/debris to hide the gloss.




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Tyson Rayles
Moderator

Premium Member


Posted - 11/20/2006 :  12:05:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Stunning! Got to be about the best backdrop and backdrop to foreground transitions I've ever seen!


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MarkF
Engineer

Premium Member


Posted - 11/20/2006 :  1:21:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You know Tim, I went back again and looked at your pictures and I would simply leave it alone! I would take Mike's suggestion, maybe add some acrylic gloss medium and be done with it. Looking at some of your pictures, you see can the details as they 'fade' into the depths of the water and I think it's a great effect as it is.

Mark

Country: USA | Posts: 13728 Go to Top of Page

Tim Kerkhoff
Fireman



Posted - 11/20/2006 :  1:33:44 PM  Show Profile  Send Tim Kerkhoff a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks again guys,

I will try your suggestions and see how it goes. The creep thing probably bothers me the most and it sounds like I can get rid of that by some careful painting and additional scenery.

While at work this morning I was thinking about what Ken said about pouring the middle to help with the creeping. But then it hit me, why not make two pours at the same time. On the edges next to the bank pour a solution that has less paint and pour it first. Then make a second pour immediately to the center that has more color, this would give me the darker look I am after and where the two pors meet, use a old brush or stick to blend the two together.
I might try a test pour first to see if I could get a nice transistion, but it sounds like it might work.
Has anyone tried that or can think of a reasn not too? I don't want to mess up what I have already, but if a test pour works then it seems it is worth a try.

Thanks so much for the feedback and the nice comments. I have been procrastinating this water pour for quite sometime and now that I am started I am now anxious to get it completed.
Any and all advice is welcomed.


Benny, I wonder if Dave brushed the Envirotex on and then let it dry before making the main pour, I could see how that might help with the creepies. Does he happen to say?



Country: USA | Posts: 5879 Go to Top of Page

Tim Kerkhoff
Fireman



Posted - 11/20/2006 :  1:37:41 PM  Show Profile  Send Tim Kerkhoff a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Mike C,

I bought some Future wax the other day for another project, but I am curious. Do you use it to make ripples on the water? I thought gloss medium was stiff enough to do that but Future wax is?
The water look I am after is a moving river. It has very if any white water, the surface would not be perfectly flat. How is the best way to do this, in your opinion?



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electrolove
Section Hand



Posted - 11/20/2006 :  3:01:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit electrolove's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tim,

Dave brushed it on and made the main pour without letting it dry. He explained it this way.

When you brush it on you can get a thin edge. Without a brushed edge you will get a edge that is rising because of the surface tension. The edge will also stop the envirotex from flowing past it.



Country: Sweden | Posts: 51 Go to Top of Page

Tim Kerkhoff
Fireman



Posted - 11/20/2006 :  4:35:50 PM  Show Profile  Send Tim Kerkhoff a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Mark and Benny,
I will give that a try Benny on the next pour.

Mark, I am not unhappy with the current look I was hoping to have it a little darker, which I can do in this next pour. I am going to try a ctest pour and see how I get along and then make a decision.

News will follow at 11:00... In this case no news is bad news...



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