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Registration is FREE!  Posting Form Screensize: 640 x 480 800 x 600 1024 x 768 1280 x 1024 UserName: Password: Format Mode: Basic  Help  Prompt  Format: Font Andale Mono Arial Arial Black Book Antiqua Century Gothic Comic Sans MS Courier New Georgia Impact Lucida Console Script MT Bold Stencil Tahoma Times New Roman Trebuchet MS Verdana   Size 1 2 3 4 5 6   Color Black Red Yellow Pink Green Orange Purple Blue Beige Brown Teal Navy Maroon LimeGreen Callouts: Message Icon:                             Smilies [quote][i]Originally posted by RyanAK[/i] [br]Design Considerations There are a few prototypes that I really admire, but haven’t quite convinced myself to go down the full-proto path. That said, everything about this layout should reflect prototype construction, operation, and equipment of the era. I live in Union County, spend a great amount of time in Sullivan County, and grew up in Northumberland County. My family is rooted in Shamokin, so I do have some anthracite in my blood. I’m most interested in modeling a small railroad working in one of the more remote and mountainous regions in central Pennsylvania. Locally, the White Deer & Loganton has a lot going for it. From 1906-1916, it pushed through the mountains for 26 miles from the west shore of the West Branch Susquehanna to the small Sugar Valley town of Loganton. It was a 3’ narrow gauge road with 28-ton Climaxes and met the P&R along the river. Short-lived, but really interesting railroad that allowed Sugar Valley communities to grow until the roads and automobiles arrived. This is the kind of story I want to tell. While not necessarily following a single, specific prototype, I want to tell the story of a community that survived because of a rugged little short line railroad. This story was repeated dozens of times at the beginning of the 20th century in the mountains of Pennsylvania. For starters, I’d like to work out the design elements and a track plan that reflects this era and local. Bellow are bullet points with some of the particulars I’d like to accomplish. Basics * Mid-point or terminus of a short line - approximately 20-40 rugged miles from interchange with Class I railroad. * Single station layout (One Town a la Jim Six, TOMA a la MRH) * Late October, 1905-ish * Minimum compression * Simplest trackage possible while keeping prototypical operation * Accurate craftsman structures and compelling scenery * A sense of history, even if not drawn from a single prototype * Storytelling * 45 minutes or more of prototypical operation Scale * HO or HOn3 Physical Space/Layout Wishes * Approximately 2’x8’ at 50” above floor * Possible to have an 18”x48” drop-leaf, scenic lead/staging on right end * Total of 12 linear feet with drop-leaf extension - almost 1/4 scale mile * Need not be a rectangle. Can project to 30” deep left end. I like benchwork shapes that make a viewer look into the scene * Small elevation changes - the mainlines, sidings and spurs were rarely perfectly level with one another in this era/location * Manual turnouts * Manual or magnetic uncoupling - still researching this * Furniture-style benchwork - possibly. I have sketches if anyone is curious Town switching * Small Depot * Small Freight House (or combination depot?) * Team Track * Possible other online customers - coal/firewood dealer, lumber/building supplies, supply/general merchandise company, stockyard, farm co-op/feed & seed/mill/grain, or...? * There are craftsman kits that I am really drawn to, but we’ll see what develops with the track plan and story before there’s a spending spree... * Turntable? Not sure... they eat up space and several prototypes never turned the locomotive. Though I can’t find any trackage maps for the White Deer & Loganton, all of the images I’ve been able to find show the Climax pointing ‘up hill’. * Structures offline are as important to the story as those that are rail-served. Beyond (the rest of the world...) * Other industries served (beyond layout) - timber/wood products, especially mine props and hemlock bark, some lumbering; dairy; agriculture * Interchange with Class I is off-layout. Engine servicing is off-layout, though water should be available. Power and Rolling Stock * Freight cars will be a maximum length of 36’ scale feet (~5”) * Could use an assist with kit/RTR selection * Passenger service by combine * Small, early steam - 4-4-0, 4-6-0, 28 ton Climax or similar * Could use an assist with locomotive selection - DCC/Sound preferred. Oh to find an HOn3 28-ton Climax with DCC and sound... * HOn3 2-8-0 length ~7.4” * HO 4-6-0 length ~9.17” * Mixed local trains - 4-5 cars, engine, caboose; ~40”-48” consist. * If HOn3, all home-road cars, no interchange (obviously) * HO, interchange with P&R, Pennsy or LVRR I’ll be sprinkling in some prototype photos for inspiration and discussion as the conversation develops. This should be fun! Thanks in advance for any and all contributions. [/quote]    -  HTML is OFF | Forum Code is ON    Insert a File     Check here to include your profile signature. Check here to subscribe to this topic.      T O P I C    R E V I E W RyanAK Posted - 10/24/2018 : 4:33:51 PM Hey, Gang. Just getting back into the hobby and I’m deep into sorting out some design considerations for a smallish layout. I thought I’d start a post here to see if anyone would like to follow along or contribute. I’m months away from starting any construction, so I think this will be a fun thought exercise in the meantime. I like early 20th century history, small steamers, small towns, storytelling and Pennsylvania. So... I’ve been exploring some of the short lines, branch lines, and narrow gauge railroads that were prevalent in central PA in the early 1900s. Large parts of the state were pretty remote if not completely isolated at the turn of the century, and there was definitely a ‘frontier’ spirit about. I’d like to capture that history and feeling with this layout. I think the prevailing thought is that the East was all built-up and civilized by 1900... In the next post, I’ll outline some design considerations. 15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First) OK Hogger Posted - 02/14/2019 : 5:39:26 PM I can't take my PC to the Throne Room with me like I can a book. Andre RyanAK Posted - 02/14/2019 : 11:14:27 AM Always something to learn. I like this hobby because books are still relevant, even as we spend so much time online. Michael Hohn Posted - 02/13/2019 : 10:40:34 AM Ryan, I picked up a copy of the Tuscarora Valley book twenty years ago from the author at the narrow gauge convention in Valley Forge. I enjoy leafing through it and looking at the photos for inspiration. I also like reading the author’s article on his own layout some years back in RMC. Mike OK Hogger Posted - 02/13/2019 : 10:24:26 AM ... there were so many cool little railroads in central Pennsylvania in the first quarter of the 20th century. True dat. I love how Noplace now was Someplace back then. I even like to go back further than the first quarter of the 20th century... back toward a road's inception and boom that followed. LOTS of neat elements and inspiration can be found within the eras that TOC19 spans. Andre RyanAK Posted - 02/13/2019 : 09:49:40 AM Starting in on the Tuscarora Valley book... what a neat prototype! The book is well done and gives a human touch to the history, which I find appropriate for these narrow gauge and short line roads. Also picked up a great book on the Susquehanna & New York. Man... there were so many cool little railroads in central Pennsylvania in the first quarter of the 20th century. Really wonderful inspiration for small, achievable layouts. I have about another good half-dozen small scenes with high operational interest to add to the list. Sonestown... Sonestown is turning into a magnificent layout design. Oh! to have the space available to build it some day..... R RyanAK Posted - 01/28/2019 : 12:51:19 PM Isn't this place great? The engine house turned church isn't something I ever would have stumbled upon. Very cool. And while looking around the interwebs, it looks like there were a lot of neat narrow gauge and short line railroads in the area. I'd bet that when most people hear "Pittsburgh" and "railroad", they aren't thinking inclines or nifty interurban common carriers in steam! R brian budeit Posted - 01/25/2019 : 2:38:28 PM Dave, that's exactly the article I was thinking of, good sleuthing on your part. The Ligonier was a neat short line. Originally 3' gauge, it even had a steam powered rail car for passenger service. Built with the backing of the Mellons, the money influence shows in surviving stations, especially the impressive building in Ligonier. Never dieselized, it closed out service in early 50's in steam. Decent amount of buildings survive, and line is short enough to make an easy one day tour. If you want to go to Idlewild Park, the original narrow gauge station is now in the park. brian b deemery Posted - 01/25/2019 : 2:04:35 PM Found this: http://www.lvrra.org/liggies/liggie_sep_2012.pdf Thanks, that's a fascinating story of reuse. dave brian budeit Posted - 01/25/2019 : 12:30:46 PM No photos handy, but if you look up Ligonier Valley Railroad or historical society, there is an on line newsletter that had some nice pictures. Its not a little two stall wooden house, as most short lines bring to mind. It was a large brick industrial looking building. When the railroad closed down in the early 50's, the building was sold, stripped to the steel frame in places, and rebuilt as a large church and school. Looking at it you would never know, it looks like a late 50's era school building. There is a storage area in the building with tracks still in the floor, and filled and concreted inspection pits. Supposedly, during rebuilding, anything not wanted was thrown in the pits as fill, and concreted over. Interesting to think what artifacts could be in there. If you like enginehouses converted to churches, here in Pittsburgh, in the neighborhood of Ingram, is a large church converted from a streetcar barn, again in the 1950's. If you weren't told, you would never know. brian b deemery Posted - 01/25/2019 : 12:00:41 PM "Engine house turned church" - ooh! Tell us more! Photos? dave brian budeit Posted - 01/24/2019 : 10:08:56 AM A major benefit of modeling an area close to home is being able to visit the site to be modeled. To me nothing helps get you oriented like taking a RR book, seeking out the areas, and comparing scenes, as Ryan has done. My main reason for modeling the EBT and the Tuscarora Valley. Both are a day trip, granted, a long day. Sometimes you find something totally unexpected. On a recent visit to Ligonier, I found an old machine shop building from the Ligonier Valley, still standing, in use as a home. Knew about the station and engine house turned church, but not the machine shop. brian b OK Hogger Posted - 01/23/2019 : 4:10:02 PM Yes, too cool. Love the scenes. And yup, that horse n' buggy in the distance is indeed cool! I'm thinking about hitting the Ozarks tomorrow for an outing. Maybe get some inspirational pictures as they present themselves. Similar to what John Denver sang: "Thank God I'm a mountain boy!" (Hillbilly!) Andre RyanAK Posted - 01/23/2019 : 4:05:18 PM The town we live in now is about 2,500 people. Loganton is the biggest town in Sugar Valley... which is 20 miles long and ~1 mile wide. There are less people in the entirety of Sugar Valley than in Mifflinburg. I think the village of Loganton's current population is less than 500. Population has been pretty flat for over 100 years. It really is remote, even though I-80 passes within 1 mile... and there's even an exit! I just think it's so cool to visit these places, historic photos in hand, and think back. In a place like Sugar Valley, you don't even have to suspend reality to be taken back. In the first 2019 photo of Loganton above, that little black speck on the road up near the town... is a horse and buggy. How neat? OK Hogger Posted - 01/19/2019 : 1:57:58 PM Neat pictures! Very similar to scenes found in the Ozarks! Small town life is cool. Been there, done that, loved it. Andre RyanAK Posted - 01/19/2019 : 1:54:47 PM Story of America in the early 20th century, eh? I find it endlessly fascinating. Took the long way home from the cabin and went through Loganton. Also a quiet village in the high mountain plains of Sugar Valley. I love the character and the pace of life here and could make it my home. It’s pretty remote, and one would certainly need to be comfortable with the lack of conveniences and services to make a go of it. Took some photos while there. Thanks for following along. I’m enjoying our conversation. 1907 Approximately the same scene in 2019. Location of the depot. View looking from the depot towards the saw mill. Snow is starting to fly. Samantha and the babies are visiting family, so the house is empty. Time to put a fire in the stove, pour a glass, and finish up the Bitter Creek box car build. Railroad Line Forums © 2000-19 Railroad Line Co.
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